this post was submitted on 20 Feb 2026
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Proton VPN/mail. It's often recommended as being safe, but I'm not so sure.

It has servers in Israel. Ties to Israel are never a good thing. Palantir, Epstein, etc are tied to Israel, and Israel also is known for its surveillance. It is also true that it's completely legal there for them to access and monitor any and all information that passes through VPNs or networks there.

I'm looking for a safe alternative that's privacy-conscious and isn't linked to Israel. Both mail and vpn (it's fine if they're separate). Please let me know if you guys know.

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[–] antifa_ceo@lemmy.ml 39 points 3 weeks ago (20 children)

Having servers in Israel means you are materially tied to them now? Making this jump to liken it to Epstein or Palantir is kinda wild imo

[–] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (4 children)

Having servers in Israel means you are materially tied to them now?

Yes, absolutely. Profiting from servers under genocidal control is literally being materially tied to genocide.

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[–] FreudianCafe@lemmy.ml 2 points 3 weeks ago

Remember me of a guy who said that being paid by the CIA doesnt mean youre actually working for the CIA.

[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 2 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Doing any business with or in Israel is being materially tied to Israel.

[–] Yliaster@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago

They don't need to be materially linked; they are digitally linked. Israel allows it's communication and intelligence agencies complete legal access to any communications through VPNs that operate in it's area.

I don't want that surveillance.

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[–] unknowablenight@piefed.social 21 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Having exit nodes for their VPN is not the same as collaborating with the government. There is no evidence that the Israeli government has access to any of their information, their servers are hosted in Switzerland.

[–] Yliaster@lemmy.world 6 points 3 weeks ago

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't running a VPN to a region require you to have a server in that region?

[–] hector@lemmy.today 2 points 3 weeks ago

I wouldn't assume they aren't able to grab it all. Both the US and all 5 eye countries, and Israel, should be avoided if possible, to have nothing passing through their servers. Not that other countries won't also grab it as they can, but Israel by extension of the US has things compromised on a base level.

[–] Scipitie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 17 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

I have my issues with proton because of its CEO and some weird decisions for their product lone and don't use them at all. I.e. I won't defend this company.

Such a claim without source and explanation or interpretation of assumed implications are pure fear mongering.

Because of this: my advice is to decouple your privacy concerns and thoughts from politics in the first degree (rhetoric and hearsay). Base it ok policies, observable behavior, audits, laws and so on..your example: exit nodes for VPNs don't have an impact on security at all in neither direction. Hosting infrastructure there would (i.e. it would increase potential access and put the infrastructure under additional legal requirements).

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[–] Egonallanon@feddit.uk 16 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

Do you have information on proton's Israel links? I know they used radware several years ago but no longer do.

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[–] Concur6053@lemmy.today 11 points 3 weeks ago
[–] tyrant@lemmy.world 9 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)
[–] Postmortal_Pop@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Mulvad is the first group that really gets me. Good because they care about the idea, cheap because they aren't trying to choke me for money, and they take cash.

[–] HorreC@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago

but doesnt mullvad have an exit node in Isreal too? Wouldnt that just be the same boat this person (OP) put proton in for?

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[–] Shabby4582@lemmy.world 8 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

You have the ability to whip up this BS about proton, but a web search for “private email provider” was too much?

[–] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Wooosh. That search would be pretty useless to anybody who opposes genocide.

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[–] basilisa@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (2 children)

Bad news, the sun shines in Israel and provides illegal settlers with vitamin D therefore it must have ties to genocide. BOYCOTT THE SUN!!!!

[–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

BOYCOTT THE SUN!!!

we already are, that's why there's no mass adoption of solar panels and electric vehicles in most of the world despite both being dirt cheap from china and we've doubled down on drilling/extracting fossil fuels to the highest levels ever in history while simultaneously quadrupling our energy usage via datacenters for AI.

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[–] doodoo_wizard@lemmy.ml 7 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (5 children)

Your ties to Israel claim is more than just a little specious.

Mullvad, widely considered the gold standard for privacy, allows the user to select a server in Israel.

Aside from that nugget, consider not worrying too much about perfect email secrecy. Email isnt private, was never intended to be and has many, many vectors of attack which are so well documented and in such common use that ISPs have attacked email simply to promote end users running their service instead of the competition.

[–] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 3 weeks ago (11 children)

One VPN being openly corrupted doesn't make another openly corrupted VPN safe.

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[–] magic_smoke@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Mullvad or ivpn for vpn, tutanota or posteo for mail.

Also stop looking at advertisements for privacy tools and services.

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[–] anotherspinelessdem@lemmy.ml 4 points 3 weeks ago

There are plenty of problems with Proton, but since they have a VPN service it means they probably have an exit node in Israhell. I'm pretty sure any VPN that masks traffic as coming from Israhell will do the same. I'm not saying that it's not worth looking for one that doesn't do business in Israhell, it just might be hard to find. If you ever need to exit through that node, just make sure your encryption is maxed, with quantum encryption preferably, and avoid doing anything sensitive over that node.

[–] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (3 children)

Not sure why people would downvote this completely reasonable question.

Unfortunately I don't know of any VPN services that actively oppose genocide. I would like to know as well.

It's part of the misery of living in the imperial core. The whole of capitalism is based on genocide, etc.

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[–] chloroken@lemmy.ml 2 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (2 children)

Complete bullshit by a trolling OP. Israel is cancer, but OP is doing an obvious smear on Proton to try to agitate leftists. Case in point: Mullvad and most other VPNs have exit nodes in Israel.

It is a dumbfuck corporate decision that has absolutely no more bearing on your VPN's privacy than routing through the US or Australia. You are truly completely confused.

Also "its" doesn't have an apostrophe when used as a possessive, you fucking idiot.

[–] Yliaster@lemmy.world 3 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

Just because mullvad and most other VPNs do something, doesn't mean it's good.

Israel is known for a level of surveillance that most other countries aren't.

The rest of what you've said is just ad hominem I'm not interested in.

[–] chloroken@lemmy.ml 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

The idea that you're not interested in being called out is not unusual.

You have a bone to pick with Proton. It is evident as you've singled them out without mentioning this is industry standard. You have a problem with the VPN industry that you are solely blaming Proton for in your post title.

You are a weird little agitator and deserve many more ad hominems. Get wrecked.

[–] Yliaster@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago

I responded to the aspects of your argument that weren't personal attacks. Personal attacks, yes, I am not interested in.

''Industry standard'' doesn't mean anything. Government surveillance and everything this sub stands against is ''industry standard''. Just because everyone's doing it doesn't mean it's a good thing.

I ''singled out'' Proton because it was the VPN I used the most prior. I'm not sure why that's a problem.

Are you able to discuss things based on criticisms of logical reasoning and evidence, or are you going to continue to respond with personal attacks? I am open to critique.

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