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Until we find a way to objectively determine education so that it's not corrupted by perverse incentives, democracy is better than anything else. Yes democracy is perverted from propaganda, but say something like monarchy can easily get an uneducated (or worse) monarch, and then there's nothing you can do.
Socrates (and other philosophers like him) were basically promoting aristocracy. The answer is to dismantle things providing the perverse incentives, namely, capitalism itself.
It's only the best because it's the least worst
Using the US as an example of democracy is stupid though
It's not democracy
Stupid people like to decry compulsory voting, but it is absolutely fantastic at actually making the will of the people known
'Murica has many (very deliberately and carefully engineered) obstacles to voting
If the masses had their voices heard, it'd be a very different situation there
Unfortunately, the current problems would still largely be problems. With decades of incremental attacks on education, the general intelligence of the masses has been suppressed. Now the unintelligent have been weponized by the malicious oligarchy, in an effort to catapult themselves to deification.
Everyone should be voting, but we also need to ensure that everyone gets as much education as possible. A smarter populace benefits us all, through better choices and understanding. We need to reverse the damage done to education, and also work to increase empathy and reduce selfishness.
The greatest feats humans have accomplished have been thanks to working together toward a single goal. We need to help everyone understand this, and that the "I got mine" attitude is extremely harmful to all of us. Lifting up your neighbor is to lift up yourself.
I agree
America is stupid by design. Educated people are dangerous because they're more able to see when they're being manipulated
It's polarised though: There are some amazing minds in the US, and some very, very dumb. The dumb are useful to the powerful
The most brilliant thing that those in power (the real power) have done is to convince the people in the middle that it's not worth bothering.
America is built on hate, but the reason it has continued for a couple of hundred years isn't the hate, it's the apathy and resignation
Socrates and Aristotle also believed rule should be imposed by philospher-kings. They believed in rule by merit, a core right-wing philosophy. The difference between them and modern right-wingers is that the modern ones believe wealth is an indicator of merit.
Eh, Artistotle was Plato's student. They're not that different. Aristotle was a complete aristocracy simp.
I said in another post that I'm less familiar with Aristotle, but I thought that was the main divide between them, and was under the impression that Aristotle took the whole "I'm going to make own school" approach to their disagreements. Whereas Plato believed in the rule of the supposed phiosopher-king, Aristotle argued for the value of a more open democracy.
Aristotle was also the tutor to Alexander the great, who extinguished democracy in Greece forever
It was more a logical conclusion that the people with the best education should have a seat in the senate. That was not limited, but also included philosophers. They strived for the best results for Athens and the country as a whole.
Would they become corrupted and powerhungry? I dont know. Thats always a possibility.
But from a logical standpoint there is not much to argue against. Which was exactly the way they came to this conclusion. Arguing until they had the commonly agreed on best result for everyone. Arguing and critizising until they found the essence of how a state should be governed?
Where they wrong? If so we should all stop right there because our whole democratic system is built on it. Thus making our ways wrong.
I misspoke in my original post and brain dead said Aristotle when I meant Plato, a mix-up which would have offended both of them.
Our governmental system is not built on Socrates' philosophies, neither in practice, nor on paper.
Alhough I am admittedly less familiar with his work, Aristotle is closer to our current (on paper) system, but I never intended to claim he was pro merit-based leadership; Socrates, as depicted through Plato, was. That's a problem, because whoever determines what "merit" is leads to unapologetic, authoritarian, often fascist, rule.
It's upsetting that for a lot of people, the depth of this topic just stops here forever.
I'd like to live in actual democracy, where the economy is also organized democratically (e.g. workers' co-op) instead of the current system, where companies (which can hold immense economic power) work like dictatorships.
There is a pretty good Simpsons episode about how exactly that would end. I remember Steven Hawking playing a part.
"Let's make litter out of these literati!"
"That's too clever, you're one of them!" POW!
Like so much of the simpsons, lives rent free in my head
Democracy is as fair as possible but fair does not necessarily translate to prosocial, efficient and competent. The people can be corrupt and immoral, uneducated and short-sighted, so those who are not will suffer because of the lost majority. In the absence of a righteous, strong (so not weak enough to be corrupted by lesser men with indecent proposals) and big-brained leader, I guess we can/should still default to democracy?
Yes.
Both are true, actually.