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They make good points until this bullshit:
But if video games are ever going to be taken seriously as an artistic medium, they have to grow up, and that means learning how to love authentically.
No. That take is horseshit. They don't have to do anything to be taken seriously as art. They already are. If you can't see it because it doesn't tick some of your boxes that's a you issue.
Some games are art. Some are money grabs or outright scams.
And that’s true for any “artistic” medium as well
Valid
You've gotta admit that there's something satisfying about the perfection of the duct tape strip, and the fact that some bozo paid another bozo mega bucks for it.
I would actually agree with him in some level. Art should always be evolving, and it should be looking past its comfort zones, even past areas many others have failed, to do so.
It doesn't need to be a form of "disqualification" as he says, but there IS value in applying change even just for its own sake.
BG3 romances seem shallow and kind of transactional because it is a mix of characters who don't know each other having a whirlwind romance in a relatively short period of time. They are easily comparable to the majority of romances in movies and books with similar circumstances.
The other thing that is always going to make romances in games difficult to do in more detail is a lack of real world senses that play a huge part in attraction. Smells, tone of voice, flirting based on what is cutrently happening are either impossible or extremely time consuming to implement in a computer game. Like you could luck into picking the right cologne for a character or something, but that is along the same lines as picking the right voice lines.
Not saying it is literally impossible to do, but it really is a monumental task to implement relationships that don't seem forced or obviously mechanical in a video game. If they did implement one perfectly, the randomness of real life would make it nearly impossible to have a romance as there are so many things that can easily derail a relationship forming including just not being in the mood to reciprocate affection because of some completely unrelated event!
BG3 dialogue and story is also crafted to be "over the top", where everything is always stressful and everyone has some crazy insane magical high stakes backstory. Of course the romance, such as it is, isn't going to feel realistic.
I think it also makes them feel more shallow because the characters are all "player-sexual" to use an industry term. Basically every character is into you if you want them to be.
I'd love to see more games have characters with preset likes and dislikes and how you've built and played your character will determine who will be interested (and who will shoot you down!)
Part of me thinks the devs should just be more settled about having more relationships that don't involve the player. You get 5 supporting characters, and character A, in their "relationship event" with you, admits that they have feelings for character C and want your advice because they don't know how to express it.
Some games in the past were like this but people complained because "I want the goth baddie but I am not an 80 year old man with a white beard names Santa Claus, this game's romance system sucks."
The game already works this way I believe. There was a point during EA that each character was way too keen on the PC though. Gale in particular was a problem they had to go back and fix.
This is a really weird way to argue a weird point. I think, the main issue is, most games are closer to boardgames than movies and the author places them too close to movies.
And you can build boardgames for romance, sure. But, unless the romance is part of the core game loop, it's something that breaks the flow of the game. So it gets abstracted away, or the romance is expressed in terms of the core game mechanics. Which, in video games often are reaching the next scene, dialog trees or gaining stat points.
And, even if you think they're closer to movies, then most video games are closest to action movies. And here the word romance isn't used. It's just renamed love interest and is often just the price for saving the world, but the core 'mechanics' are the same.
And most romances will start as fun flings full of hope, not with the nitty-gritty logistics. The logistics will come later, sure. But most Video-Games are set romantically in a few weeks of summer camp, so there is no need to figure out logistics, yet.
Open-World games, that have a character that travels around and meets people as part of their daily lives, sure.
But this argument would apply to games like the Elder Scrolls series. Not Cyberpunk 2077 in which the main character is dying and has only weeks left to live.
But, I do concede that most romances do fall flat once you've reached the top. You had your sex-scene and you may have your kisses, your hugs, the new greetings in dialogue, and the characters return to being cardboard in the background.
Very well put.
To touch on the point of "where do video games fit in media"; I am reminded of an old video that sticks with me, roughly shortly after the release of Elder Scrolls Oblivion, with Sir Patrick Stewart on the topic of covering games and whether they are art.
He put forward the framing of "who is telling the story" to classify where video games fall closest as art. You have four possible personas in storytelling/art:
• the author
• the director
• the actors
• the audience
He then broke down who is telling the story:
• in paintings and carvings, it is the artist telling all of the story directly through the media.
• in books, it is a combination of the author and the reader, it is the author's words that create the story through the filter and imagination of the readers mind.
• on stage, it is the actors that tell the story to the audience.
• in film, it is the director telling the story through the performances of the actors who all filter the words of the writer.
He stated how he marveled at video games because they represent a new media where the storyteller is the audience directly. Yes the writer lays out the possible elements, the actors, if present, influence how the characters are percieved, and the director pulls all of that together.
But it is the audience that creates the story in every run through every action they take in the game, and as such they are closest to books.
Insofar as romance and based on the above, I think that once the planned beats are played out it is up to the audience as the storyteller to create the rest of the romance.
I just ignore all romance in games because even at its best; it’s cringy and makes me feel weird and uncomfortable.
You know how people build relationships in meatspace? Lore dumps.
"Thank you for coming. It was nice of your friend to help us meet."
" I was there. I was there 3000 years ago ... when Isildur took the Ring. I was there the day the strength of men failed. I led Isildur into the heart of Mount Doom, where the Ring was forged, the one place It could be destroyed! It should have ended that day, but evil was allowed to endure. Isildur kept the ring. The line of kings is broken. There's no strength left in the world of Men. They're scattered, divided, leaderless."
"...o-kay. Would you like to share some entrées or .. Let's order some drinks first."
Yes, also meatspace romance is built not just on the pivotal but a whole lot on the mundane.
You listen to Shadowheart's story in Baldur's Gate 3 and, since you pass no judgment, fall in love.
Not that different than a lot of the relationships I had when I was young to be honest.
Well, I listen to Shadowheart's story and since I'm a warlock who pacted with an evil master just because I wanted to do cool tricks, I felt I shouldn't judge. (Also she is a ride or die goth girl).
Though the frog lady is the best.
There is of course more to it, but this was actually a key factor in my own marriage lol
“I’m horny and they’re hot” leads to a lot of shallow “understanding” of someone’s shitty behavior.
It's kinda sorta not a game in many ways but dispatch did a decent job I thought.
We need videogame romances where you are both so enamored with each other; every answer is stupid and cringe but to them it's the most romantic thing ever. Also the sex is silly and awkward and kinda gross, but they both have fun, a good laugh and enjoy it.
I heard about a very silly, cartoony game that applies this as a basis: Buster Jam. The two leads are in a relationship, but it doesn't affect their lazy heroic dynamic in any way. Funny to have a villain remark "...you and your GIRLFRIEND..." and not get corrected.
I think that romance in video games is... well it's just like romance in any other medium. It exists to paint a picture in your head of what love looks like, because that's something they can sell to you.
If you want a game with natural feeling, organic romance then that's going to be the game. Full stop, simply having a cast of 10 characters already makes this very complicated.
my favorite is fallout 4 after just watching your wife/husband get murdered you can almost immedeately start a harem of lovers 😂
I think i might have touched this subject before, but im really torn how many games handle sexuality of the characters.
I kind of hate how in many games every dateable character are main character-sexual. I feel like it robs the characters some depth when they dont care of the character is he/she/other. It makes the characters feel bland amd plastic.
But on the other hand games are a medium where player should be able to craft their own story and feel accepted, so devs should limit and hinder the player as little as they can. Especially when the real world can be so hostile towards the sexual minorities.
One of my favorite video game romances takes place in the Legend of Heroes: Trails series. When first described on paper in a quick summary, it's something some people might roll their eyes at, but it's built very well.
Something that had to be nailed down early about it was, it really couldn't be optional, based on "relationship score", or even happen on its own time. One of the best scenes in this duology centers around a huge character reveal, which puts forward the confession of love all at the same time; while that relationship had been a slow tease through individual scenes, it suddenly became a huge, very important part of this large conflict.
I definitely think for better relationships in games, we need a lot more focus on characters, and we need to stop viewing the relationships as rewards; sadly I don't have many further ideas than railroaded stories, but I think there's probably more options out there.
Romances are stupid shallow fluff that serve no purpose except to draw in lonely people. They’re idiotic and predatory.
Guilty as charged
and horny! sometimes its not enough that they are naked!
This brings me to an interesting question, only briefly touched upon in the article (and with too few examples): which is the best video game romance so far?
I liked Haven's romance, because it's the only game that actually bothers to show the actual relationship.
Too many games show romance as a slow burn which eventually culminates in a kiss at the very end of the game (and then roll credits), or a checklist that eventually ends with the two characters mimicking sexual intercourse within the boundaries of video game physics, and then... Nothing, because the sex scene is the "reward" for going through the checklist, not the beginning of an actual relationship.
Haven begins when the two characters are already in love. They flee to some deserted planet and live their happy life. They joke, they play, they have sex, they argue and talk and annoy each other. It's one of the most convincing relationships I've seen in a video game.
I'm Ace, and the game made me realize that I don't hate sex. I just hate the way sex is usually portrayed in media.
I'd probably argue games that 'can' do this well is JRPGs because they tend to be a slow burn and have a lot of small side conversations that are not directly plot related, which allows the characters and relationships to get fleshed out.
The ones that immediately come to mind are FF 8/9/10 but I'm certain there are others.
In games where the romance is like a mechanic and not a part of the story? Hmm that's a tougher question because I think mechanics/gameification tend to ruin the human part of relationship building.
You know what's wild? The answer that immediately comes to mind is Warframe.
Genuinely, I'm not remotely joking, Warframe has some of the best video games romance I've ever encountered.
Two things really stand out to me about the conversations in Warframe.
First, the things they learn about you are often just as important as the things you learn about them. The article talks about the process of two people figuring out how they fit into each other's lives, and that's exactly what you get with Warframe. You need to actually show that you can be someone they can love, as well as simply showing interest in them.
Secondly, and I think maybe more importantly; most of the conversations in Warframe don't feel "important." They all are. But most of them are about comparatively trivial things. A lot of it is literally just people sharing shower thoughts, or jokes, or talking about dumb shit, or getting things off their brains. But how you handle those interactions matters just as much, if not more, than the heavy stuff.
Also, the way the characters interact feels distinct and different. Amir, the most obvious case of ADHD in the universe, writes five messages for every one of yours (these conversations all happen through "Not MSN Messenger"), and most of the time what he needs is for you to just listen while he unloads all the chaotic shit in his brain. Eleanor, the journalist, writes long, carefully formed sentences with correct punctuation and grammar. She poses questions, prods and pries, tries to dig secrets out of you. Aoi will sometimes just send you a string of emojis, and will be delighted if you reply the same way. She likes to be silly, but more importantly she needs to just know that you're there and you cared enough to reply. It's the written equivalent of squeezing someone's hand. Some characters will pester you, others are more likely to wait for you to talk first. There's a unique dynamic with each of them.
