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Food firms urge Europe not to ban calling non-meat products ‘sausages’ (www.theguardian.com)

submitted 5 hours ago by schizoidman@lemmy.zip to c/europe@feddit.org

43 comments fedilink hide all child comments

More than a dozen food companies have urged the European Commission not to ban the use of words such as “sausage” and “burger” for non-meat products.

top 43 comments

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[–] mr_anny@sopuli.xyz 3 points 31 minutes ago

Sausage can be whatever as the name corresponds to beinh heavily salted.

[–] Zier@fedia.io 3 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Sausages can be called "links". Burgers can be called "patties". The only people pissed about Soy Milk, Vegan Burgers and Veggie Sausages are the corporations who sell meat exclusively, and the people who don't read food packaging. Smart vegan & vegetarians know that you need to read the ingredients before you buy that product. I always make sure I go home with the right wiener.

[–] dupelet_comments@piefed.social 2 points 55 minutes ago

There's definitely some bad actors in food packaging, though. In some countries, it's insane how hard it is to differentiate between butter and some non-dairy spread at the grocery.

[–] wieson@feddit.org 22 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

Listen, I'm not a vegan, but I find this names that are bent around the bush so annoying.

Yeah, I get it , it's not literally milk. But calling it "almond milk" is waaay smoother than "almond drink" or "almond concoction" or whatever.

Same with Malzbier.

[–] tresspass@lemmy.world 1 points 3 minutes ago

The definition of milk literally includes plant milks. Milk has been used to describe these beverages for as long as the give existed.

[–] ViatorOmnium@piefed.social 56 points 4 hours ago (3 children)

I think the rules should be even stricter. An Hamburger should only be made in Hamburg, otherwise it's a Minced Corpse Patty.

[–] Zier@fedia.io 4 points 1 hour ago

It should actually be called Cow Mince. We have Pork Chops, Lamb Chops, they should use Cow as well.

[–] foliumcreations@lemmy.world 3 points 2 hours ago

That's a very metal name ! 🤟

[–] The_Che_Banana@beehaw.org -1 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Found the vegan!

[–] OhmeHose@feddit.org 1 points 2 hours ago

/s ?

[–] dust_accelerator@discuss.tchncs.de 12 points 3 hours ago

Sooo. There's a word.

Kackwurst, die

Grammatik
Substantiv (Femininum)

Genitiv Singular: Kackwurst
Nominativ Plural: Kackwürste

Aussprache
[ˈkakvʊʁst]

Worttrennung
Kack-wurst

Clearly, this may be, or may not be a meat product. If they want to regulate something so so far, they must go all the way!

[–] runwaylights@lemmy.world 18 points 4 hours ago

I couldn't care less what you call them. You can call them vegetable dicks and I would still eat them. It's just a ridiculous waste of resources powered by the meat lobby who have seen a portion of their market share disappear.

[–] ThirdConsul@lemmy.zip 17 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

I hate that a sausage comes from a "food company" instead of a butcher. (Or grocer for vegan sausage)

[–] harmbugler@piefed.social 6 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

So, food companies, just how much actual meat is there in your sausages and what animal parts are you using?

[–] Hansae@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 58 minutes ago

Ngl the difference between a local butchers farm sausages & mass produced meat tubes is huge.

[–] 5715@feddit.org 10 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

es geht um die wurst

[–] comrade_twisty@feddit.org 4 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago) (1 children)

alles hat ein ende…

[–] Successful_Try543@feddit.org 2 points 3 hours ago

… nur die Wurst hat zwei

[+] Zwuzelmaus@feddit.org -36 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago) (3 children)

But such a ban is needed. Urgently.

They want to lie? They even think that their business depends on such lies? Then the market will eliminate them anyway, and nobody is going to mourn them.

[–] CXORA@aussie.zone 5 points 2 hours ago

Its not a lie... thats how people know and name the item. In fact this ban would punish people using natural established names for things thst have been in use for decades. It is nonsensical.

[–] runwaylights@lemmy.world 22 points 4 hours ago (2 children)

Urgently? You get easily confused in the supermarket?

[+] unknownuserunknownlocation@kbin.earth -17 points 4 hours ago (5 children)

I actually did have vegan "fish" by accident once. Ordered normal fish and chips, but they called the vegan stuff Vish, so it was easy to get mixed up. It was quite the disappointment (I immediately tasted that this was not fish).

I don't understand why people keep insisting that it has to be called a burger or a sausage. With a burger - OK, I kind of see that we've already muddied the waters on what can be called a burger, but a sausage? That has just about always been with meat until recently, and obviously for many people that's part of the definition. Why can't we just call it something else if the core element of what makes it a thing is absent? (And why do we even have to try to recreate meat by processing vegan stuff until what it used to be is unrecognizable? There's so much more to vegan coming than that...)

[–] Teacrumble@feddit.org 2 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 59 minutes ago)

For the Vish 'n Chips, I fully agree. If the names are too easily mixed up, then it should be changed, 100%.

But just using the word burger or sausage as part of the productname shouldn't be banned. As long as you put a clear descriptive of the kind of sausage in front of it like veggie sausage or quorn sausages. If you gave people a sausage, and when they bite into it they find out its chicken sausage or even blood sausage, would their outrage not be equally valid, since they expected a normal pork sausage?

And why do we even have to try to recreate meat by processing vegan stuff until what it used to be is unrecognizable?

Isn't that basically what the traditional sausage was as well, made from blended scrap parts and organs? Minced meat on its own is processing the meat of an animal until it is unrecognizable

[–] MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 hour ago

We've had veggie sausages (the non meat replacement kind) for a very fucking long time. Definitely more than 30 years. Why is the term so precious now?

[–] Whats_your_reasoning@lemmy.world 3 points 1 hour ago

So you didn't do your due diligence as a restaurant patron to find out exactly what you were ordering, and somehow that means others are to blame?

I can't fathom sincerely making such an argument. You saw a strange name, didn't ask questions, ordered it, and got disappointed.

Okay, now I know that sounds awfully confrontational, but it's a harsh truth that we as consumers need to do our own due diligence when making purchases. If something seems off, I'd implore you (and everyone else reading this) to investigate it, for your own sake and safety. We live in a world that's ready to swindle every one of us at any given chance - no matter what kind of product we're looking at.

[–] MaggiWuerze@feddit.org 19 points 3 hours ago (2 children)

The core element of a sausage is not, that it is made from meat. Its the shape and structure, namingly "Ground up things stuffed into a thin tube, then cooked, smoked or grilled".

There have been so many changes even before adding being vegetarian to the mix.

Most sausage you buy nowadays is no longer made with pig intestines. Does that bother you as well?

There was also sausage that was not made from meat before or only contained very little, Luke Pinkel or Grützwurst

[–] unknownuserunknownlocation@kbin.earth -4 points 3 hours ago

Traditionally, yes, it is that it is made from meat. Even most dictionaries will back that up. Even vegan "sausages" will try to make the contents taste like meat (the keyword is in my experience "try"), which kind of proves the point.

And yes, most sausages aren't made from intestine anymore, but if you want a really good one - it still is, and there's an argument to be made that it isn't an authentic traditional sausage if it isn't. To be fair, though, the intestine isn't central to the taste, it's more of a functional thing. The filling isn't.

And I'm not sure you understand what Grützwurst is, then - the base is still meat.

[–] runwaylights@lemmy.world 5 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

While I agree that there is much more to vegan than just meat replacements, and personally I don't care what they call it. There are a couple of arguments for recreating meat:

It sells. And in this world: if it sells, people will keep making it.
Being vegetarian, vegan or someone who wants to cut back on their meat eating, doesn't mean that they don't like the taste and feel of meat. Some might do it for the environment or animal suffering. But they still like that meat taste and want a replacement.
One does not exclude the other: you can have both meat replacements and non meat looking vegan stuff. Which there are BTW
Its funny: especially the vegetarian butcher has some clever wordplays
Live and let live I guess

[–] unknownuserunknownlocation@kbin.earth 2 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Fair enough. I guess it just often bothers me that I'll be somewhere, and the choice I get is between meat and something that tries to be meat. I've tried the latter a number of times and always been disappointed. Which often ends up preventing me from reducing my meat consumption, because if I don't want something masquerading as meat, well then there's nothing other than meat.

[–] runwaylights@lemmy.world 3 points 3 hours ago

Oh yes that is a real issue. It is hard sometimes to get a good vegan/vegetarian meal. I just want something original, not another goat cheese salad or a burger.

[–] rants_unnecessarily@piefed.social 14 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago) (1 children)

A sausage is a sausage, no matter what you stuff inside it. It's the shape, use and all the practicalities of a sausage that determine that it's a sausage.

When I hear "sausage" I know what to do with the thing. I can't know what it includes.
Beef? Pork? Chicken? Horse? Peas? Beans? Mushroom? Tofu? That's to be determined by the other words on the package.

[–] isgleas@lemmy.ml 4 points 4 hours ago (2 children)

A sausage is a sausage, no matter what you stuff inside it

That is limited to english vocabulary I guess. In spanish there are distictions between salchichas, chorizos, longanizas, etc, and all of them are their own kind of "embutidos". So in spanish, it would make sense to name it "embutido de guisantes"

Similarly with milk. I know you may milk nuts (jk), but not the "frutos secos" kind. How would you milk an oatmeal? A grain of rice?

[–] rants_unnecessarily@piefed.social 3 points 4 hours ago (2 children)

And this is about the English word in the English use, with English rules, so let's stick to those, shall we.

Milk is another word with another angle. The connotation is no longer, in everyday layman use, connected to "something you get out of a teet" and instead it is what children drink, you put in cereals or coffee, etc.

That's the beauty about languages, they evolve with the needs of the populace that uses them.

We no longer live in an agrarian society, so when somebody now speaks of milk, you don't think, "what did they milk it from", you think "what are they going to put that thing in that they bought from a shop".

[–] AnnieByniaeth@feddit.uk 3 points 2 hours ago

Milk of Magnesia. Coconut milk. Dandelion milk. These are all descriptions of very long standing (100s of years).

[–] isgleas@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

evolve

I don't think it means what you think it means.

That's the beauty about languages, they evolve with the needs of the populace that uses them.

In this context, no, language does not evolve. It adapts to the way it is being used.

I certainly would not like to reach a point where we must use doublespeak-eske language to communicate with certain people, but it feels like we are heading there.

[–] rants_unnecessarily@piefed.social 1 points 32 minutes ago* (last edited 29 minutes ago)

Oh ok. So the word evolve hasnt adapted to mean "slowly changes over time due to small changes" in day to day speak, along with many other meanings. See pokemon, video game bosses etc. etc.

We already doublespeak in many situations. For example "theory" in layman's terms is used like "hypothesis" instead of it's true meaning. Where as it's true meaning is pretty much only used in scientific terminology.

Anyway I'm sure 100% of people understood exactly what I meant.

[–] The_Che_Banana@beehaw.org 1 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

To answer the last they're labeled:

Bebida de Soja (avena, almendras etc), sometimes adding 'for baristas'...but that's only one brand.

Soy Drink.

No milk in the description at all, that's just for the English.

[–] isgleas@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 hours ago

No milk in the description at all, that's just for the English.

My point exactly. We need to differentiate between products. An "embutido" is not the same as a "fiambre" for example, even when you find both kind of "salchichas"

Also, this being an EU ruling proposal, it should meet the specs for all members, and english is only a fraction of the official spoken languages

But sure, I guess we all milk nuts every now and then ;) (this i is intended as a light hearted joke, you nuts)