Europe
News and information from Europe 🇪🇺
(Current banner: La Mancha, Spain. Feel free to post submissions for banner images.)
Rules (2024-08-30)
- This is an English-language community. Comments should be in English. Posts can link to non-English news sources when providing a full-text translation in the post description. Automated translations are fine, as long as they don't overly distort the content.
- No links to misinformation or commercial advertising. When you post outdated/historic articles, add the year of publication to the post title. Infographics must include a source and a year of creation; if possible, also provide a link to the source.
- Be kind to each other, and argue in good faith. Don't post direct insults nor disrespectful and condescending comments. Don't troll nor incite hatred. Don't look for novel argumentation strategies at Wikipedia's List of fallacies.
- No bigotry, sexism, racism, antisemitism, islamophobia, dehumanization of minorities, or glorification of National Socialism. We follow German law; don't question the statehood of Israel.
- Be the signal, not the noise: Strive to post insightful comments. Add "/s" when you're being sarcastic (and don't use it to break rule no. 3).
- If you link to paywalled information, please provide also a link to a freely available archived version. Alternatively, try to find a different source.
- Light-hearted content, memes, and posts about your European everyday belong in other communities.
- Don't evade bans. If we notice ban evasion, that will result in a permanent ban for all the accounts we can associate with you.
- No posts linking to speculative reporting about ongoing events with unclear backgrounds. Please wait at least 12 hours. (E.g., do not post breathless reporting on an ongoing terror attack.)
- Always provide context with posts: Don't post uncontextualized images or videos, and don't start discussions without giving some context first.
(This list may get expanded as necessary.)
Posts that link to the following sources will be removed
- on any topic: Al Mayadeen, brusselssignal:eu, citjourno:com, europesays:com, Breitbart, Daily Caller, Fox, GB News, geo-trends:eu, news-pravda:com, OAN, RT, sociable:co, any AI slop sites (when in doubt please look for a credible imprint/about page), change:org (for privacy reasons), archive:is,ph,today (their JS DDoS websites)
- on Middle-East topics: Al Jazeera
- on Hungary: Euronews
Unless they're the only sources, please also avoid The Sun, Daily Mail, any "thinktank" type organization, and non-Lemmy social media (incl. Substack). Don't link to Twitter directly, instead use xcancel.com. For Reddit, use old:reddit:com
(Lists may get expanded as necessary.)
Ban lengths, etc.
We will use some leeway to decide whether to remove a comment.
If need be, there are also bans: 3 days for lighter offenses, 7 or 14 days for bigger offenses, and permanent bans for people who don't show any willingness to participate productively. If we think the ban reason is obvious, we may not specifically write to you.
If you want to protest a removal or ban, feel free to write privately to the primary mod account @EuroMod@feddit.org
view the rest of the comments
But such a ban is needed. Urgently.
They want to lie? They even think that their business depends on such lies? Then the market will eliminate them anyway, and nobody is going to mourn them.
Its not a lie... thats how people know and name the item. In fact this ban would punish people using natural established names for things thst have been in use for decades. It is nonsensical.
Urgently? You get easily confused in the supermarket?
I actually did have vegan "fish" by accident once. Ordered normal fish and chips, but they called the vegan stuff Vish, so it was easy to get mixed up. It was quite the disappointment (I immediately tasted that this was not fish).
I don't understand why people keep insisting that it has to be called a burger or a sausage. With a burger - OK, I kind of see that we've already muddied the waters on what can be called a burger, but a sausage? That has just about always been with meat until recently, and obviously for many people that's part of the definition. Why can't we just call it something else if the core element of what makes it a thing is absent? (And why do we even have to try to recreate meat by processing vegan stuff until what it used to be is unrecognizable? There's so much more to vegan coming than that...)
There have been vegan sausages for years. It's just recently developed a hype. And they also where called sausages for literally decades.
For the Vish 'n Chips, I fully agree. If the names are too easily mixed up, then it should be changed, 100%.
But just using the word
burgerorsausageas part of the productname shouldn't be banned. As long as you put a clear descriptive of the kind of sausage in front of it likeveggie sausageorquorn sausages. If you gave people asausage, and when they bite into it they find out its chicken sausage or even blood sausage, would their outrage not be equally valid, since they expected a normal pork sausage?Isn't that basically what the traditional sausage was as well, made from blended scrap parts and organs? Minced meat on its own is processing the meat of an animal until it is unrecognizable
We've had veggie sausages (the non meat replacement kind) for a very fucking long time. Definitely more than 30 years. Why is the term so precious now?
The core element of a sausage is not, that it is made from meat. Its the shape and structure, namingly "Ground up things stuffed into a thin tube, then cooked, smoked or grilled".
There have been so many changes even before adding being vegetarian to the mix.
Most sausage you buy nowadays is no longer made with pig intestines. Does that bother you as well?
There was also sausage that was not made from meat before or only contained very little, Luke Pinkel or Grützwurst
Wrong. Simply wrong.
is black pudding a sausage?
I don't really know that thing. I have heard that it's made of boiled meat and blood, so maybe yes.
Traditionally, yes, it is that it is made from meat. Even most dictionaries will back that up. Even vegan "sausages" will try to make the contents taste like meat (the keyword is in my experience "try"), which kind of proves the point.
And yes, most sausages aren't made from intestine anymore, but if you want a really good one - it still is, and there's an argument to be made that it isn't an authentic traditional sausage if it isn't. To be fair, though, the intestine isn't central to the taste, it's more of a functional thing. The filling isn't.
And I'm not sure you understand what Grützwurst is, then - the base is still meat.
So you didn't do your due diligence as a restaurant patron to find out exactly what you were ordering, and somehow that means others are to blame?
I can't fathom sincerely making such an argument. You saw a strange name, didn't ask questions, ordered it, and got disappointed.
Okay, now I know that sounds awfully confrontational, but it's a harsh truth that we as consumers need to do our own due diligence when making purchases. If something seems off, I'd implore you (and everyone else reading this) to investigate it, for your own sake and safety. We live in a world that's ready to swindle every one of us at any given chance - no matter what kind of product we're looking at.
While I agree that there is much more to vegan than just meat replacements, and personally I don't care what they call it. There are a couple of arguments for recreating meat:
Fair enough. I guess it just often bothers me that I'll be somewhere, and the choice I get is between meat and something that tries to be meat. I've tried the latter a number of times and always been disappointed. Which often ends up preventing me from reducing my meat consumption, because if I don't want something masquerading as meat, well then there's nothing other than meat.
Oh yes that is a real issue. It is hard sometimes to get a good vegan/vegetarian meal. I just want something original, not another goat cheese salad or a burger.
The fraudsters are actually making money.
By that same arguments you could also call meat lobby the fraudsters. They're the ones whining, moaning and lobbying to the European parliament to get the ban in order. In stead of using regular sales tactics.
Note that they will still be able to sell them though. The products are allowed - they just won't be allowed to mislead consumers anymore. I really don't understand why y'all are getting so up in arms about this.
A sausage is a sausage, no matter what you stuff inside it. It's the shape, use and all the practicalities of a sausage that determine that it's a sausage.
When I hear "sausage" I know what to do with the thing. I can't know what it includes.
Beef? Pork? Chicken? Horse? Peas? Beans? Mushroom? Tofu? That's to be determined by the other words on the package.
That is limited to english vocabulary I guess. In spanish there are distictions between salchichas, chorizos, longanizas, etc, and all of them are their own kind of "embutidos". So in spanish, it would make sense to name it "embutido de guisantes"
Similarly with milk. I know you may milk nuts (jk), but not the "frutos secos" kind. How would you milk an oatmeal? A grain of rice?
And this is about the English word in the English use, with English rules, so let's stick to those, shall we.
Milk is another word with another angle. The connotation is no longer, in everyday layman use, connected to "something you get out of a teet" and instead it is what children drink, you put in cereals or coffee, etc.
That's the beauty about languages, they evolve with the needs of the populace that uses them.
We no longer live in an agrarian society, so when somebody now speaks of milk, you don't think, "what did they milk it from", you think "what are they going to put that thing in that they bought from a shop".
Milk of Magnesia. Coconut milk. Dandelion milk. These are all descriptions of very long standing (100s of years).
I don't think it means what you think it means.
In this context, no, language does not evolve. It adapts to the way it is being used.
I certainly would not like to reach a point where we must use doublespeak-eske language to communicate with certain people, but it feels like we are heading there.
Oh ok. So the word evolve hasnt adapted to mean "slowly changes over time due to small changes" in day to day speak, along with many other meanings. See pokemon, video game bosses etc. etc.
We already doublespeak in many situations. For example "theory" in layman's terms is used like "hypothesis" instead of it's true meaning. Where as it's true meaning is pretty much only used in scientific terminology.
Anyway I'm sure 100% of people understood exactly what I meant.
To answer the last they're labeled:
Bebida de Soja (avena, almendras etc), sometimes adding 'for baristas'...but that's only one brand.
Soy Drink.
No milk in the description at all, that's just for the English.
My point exactly. We need to differentiate between products. An "embutido" is not the same as a "fiambre" for example, even when you find both kind of "salchichas"
Also, this being an EU ruling proposal, it should meet the specs for all members, and english is only a fraction of the official spoken languages
But sure, I guess we all milk nuts every now and then ;) (this i is intended as a light hearted joke, you nuts)