this post was submitted on 02 Dec 2025
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[–] Paradachshund@lemmy.today 74 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Everyone's talking about the mad cow part, but this is also a really excellent point:

"Some of these people trying to define the future of humanity, creativity, or whatever it is using AI, are not the most humane or creative people. So they're sort of saying, 'We're better at being human than you are.' It's obviously not true."

[–] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 19 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Humanity and creativity are not on the CEO’s resumeé. Making shareholders happy by increasing profits and padding the CEO’s ego certainly is.

[–] nik282000@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 day ago

~~Making shareholders happy by increasing profits and padding the CEO’s ego~~ Theft and corruption certainly is.

[–] bulwark@lemmy.world 265 points 3 days ago (13 children)

"So it's sort of like when we fed cows with cows and got mad cow disease." is an amazing analogy for the current state of LLMs.

[–] Ephera@lemmy.ml 60 points 3 days ago

Yeah, the headline makes it sound like he's insulting AI, but he's just illustrating a fairly basic fact...

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[–] Bebopalouie@lemmy.ca 6 points 2 days ago

Agreed. Moo.

[–] onlinepersona@programming.dev 74 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Please be a nice bubble and pop soon, AI.

[–] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 12 points 3 days ago (9 children)

Stupid question: if you think it's a good idea but don't know when the price will go up, you just buy stock and wait. But if you think it's a bad idea and don't know when the price will go down, is there any long-term alternative to shorting that doesn't require betting on the date?

[–] bookmeat@lemmynsfw.com 7 points 2 days ago

Holding cash is a position. It also gives you the most flexibility, and low risk, but also low reward.

[–] TotallyHuman@lemmy.ca 14 points 3 days ago

If you imagine it like making a bet, nobody's going to take a bet with you where they pay you when it pops, but there's no time after which you pay them -- because they'd never get any money out of that bet. Buying stock is different because it's a thing you can own, but you can't invest in the idea of something failing, because there isn't any business which will take your money and make something more likely to fail.

You could buy every stock except AI-related stocks, which I believe is functionally equivalent to buying an index fund and shorting AI stocks based on the percentage of AI stocks in the index fund. You could also think about what businesses would do well (or less poorly) in the case of an AI-instigated crash, and then buy those.

[–] definitemaybe@lemmy.ca 8 points 3 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (3 children)

Yes, you can with derivatives: buy out-of-money puts.

Derivatives are financial instruments that pay out based on market movements. A classic example is crops: using derivatives, farmers can, essentially, "lock in" the price they sell their goods at. This allows them more stability, since they know in advance how much they'll be paid for their crops. (And they'll separately buy crop Insurance to cover their risk for crops failing, most likely.)

Puts are a derivative that is a contract for the right to sell an asset at a given price (the "strike price") on a given date. Usually, these are closed out by paying the cash value at the end, not actually selling the stocks.

Out of money means that the strike price is below the current market price. If they are still out of money at the end of the contract term, they are literally worthless. But, if the underlying asset (like NVidea stock) crashes, then you can earn the difference between the strike price and the market price.

What makes this speculation* strategy effective is that the market usually prices in a low probability of a major price decrease, so they're (relatively) cheap. They also have limited downside risk—at worst, you lose everything you spent buying them. For deeply out-of-money puts, you can make a lot of money with a huge crash, but most of the time you "just" lose all your money.

This contrasts with short selling where you have unlimited downside risk. With short selling, you're basically borrowing someone else's share and immediately selling it at the current market price, then you need to buy it back from the market when you close out the position. So if you sold it for $100, and need to buy it back at $1000, you're royally fucked. (You won't be allowed to get that far, though; you need to keep assets in your account to cover the cost, so you'd be forced to continually "pony up" more cash as the price rises, until you can't make a payment and you're forced to close out the position, losing all your initial money and all the money you were forced to keep adding as it rose.)

But good luck with that strategy; I imagine NVidea puts are pretty expensive right now since a lot of people are making this exact bet. As such, people issuing/selling puts are demanding a lot of money to pay for them taking on risk.

* This is "speculation", not "investment". Investment requires, by definition, capital put towards productive assets—in other words, it needs to be expected to return an income stream of some kind, like interest, profits, or dividend payments. Speculation is betting on the direction of price movement on an asset—"gambling", effectively, but with fancy investment words. Like in the farmer example above, they're gambling that prices won't go up, since they won't gain any of the benefit from rising prices. That type of speculation reduces risk—unlike what you are asking about.

There are other ways that derivatives can reduce risk, but that's not what you were asking about here.

[–] Zagorath@aussie.zone 1 points 13 hours ago

Usually, these are closed out by paying the cash value at the end

Am I understanding this correctly?

I sign a contract with you saying "one year from today, if I decide to sell potatoes to you, you must buy them for $100". I pay you $10 as consideration for the contract. Next year, if the price of potatoes is $110, I simply decide not to exercise my right. You don't get potatoes, but you keep your $10.

If the price of potatoes is $90, then I buy potatoes for $90, and you buy them for $100. I broke even. Or more realistically, you send me $10 cash, no actual potatoes change hands.

If the price is $95, then I only lose $5, after you send me $5 back.

If the price is $80, then I made $10 in profit, after you send me $20.

And obviously, you might on-sell that contract, in which case you're up or down the difference between $10 and whatever you sold it for, and I go to them to sell my potatoes/get my cash back, if the price of potatoes ends up below $100.

Is that right? If so, I have two follow-up questions:

  1. What advantage do shorts have over puts? Both have a maximum profit (I can't make more than $100 on those potatoes if I put. I can't make more than the current market price for potatoes if I short.), but one has infinite potential loss, and the other has limited loss.
  2. How does this actually answer @explodicle@sh.itjust.works's question? The put still requires you to guess when it'll crash, doesn't it? If I predict potatoes' price will crash within the next year and it doesn't, I lose $10, even if it crashes 370 days from now, don't I? This contrasts with regular investing/speculating the price will rise, where if I buy potatoes today for $100, predicting it'll go to the moon over the next year, but in 365 days, if the price is now $90, I still have the choice to either cut my losses to $10, or keep on, expecting it'll rise again soon.
[–] Don_alForno@feddit.org 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Puts are a derivative that is a contract for the right to buy an asset at a given price (the "strike price") on a given Date.

Puts are rights to sell, not to buy. And with that, the rest of your post actually makes sense (you want to sell above market price).

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[–] Wilco@lemmy.zip 43 points 3 days ago (7 children)
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[–] ozymandias@lemmy.dbzer0.com 22 points 3 days ago

i’m still convinced the only reason they’re pushing it so hard is to invalidate their Kompromat….
we’re already at the point where people don’t believe videos they don’t like.

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