this post was submitted on 29 Oct 2025

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ICE is out of control and beyond repair - This agency needs to be stripped down to the studs. Dems should start preparing now. (www.publicnotice.co)

submitted 2 weeks ago by gAlienLifeform@lemmy.world to c/politics@lemmy.world

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[–] Ferrous@lemmy.ml 79 points 2 weeks ago (13 children)

should start preparing now

The time to prepare was when the Democrats were in power. It's now too late. MAGA in 2019 could not have telegraphed their moves harder. The plan was always to massively bolster ICE and commence rapid, racist deportations and death camps. And not only did Biden and democrats fail to prepare for this (dismantling ICE, jailing MAGA, chickenshit prodecutor Garland, etc...), but they carried out the biggest federal law enforcement blunders in US history.

On top of this, Biden expanded ICE during his time in office, and literally built the camps that Tump is now utilizing.

It's just downright pitiful to see a headline saying that "now is the time to act", as if the people we're begging to act didnt just spend the last 4 years collaborating with fascists.

[–] nixon@sh.itjust.works 26 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Well… now IS the time to act.

Lots of missed opportunity in the past to act. We can’t change that now, we can only try to do better going forward.

I feel focusing the narrative on how we got into this emergency situation to cast blame on past non-action does little to affect any future change and demotivates others from trying.

Can we focus on what we are going to do instead of pointing fingers?

I know it feels good to cast blame, to get our anger out, and gives us the feeling we are doing something. It also weighs us down, directs our focus to the past when we need to be here now focused on what options are still available to us. We can analyze how we got here and what we should have done later.

Now is all we have left.

[–] M0oP0o@mander.xyz 7 points 2 weeks ago (5 children)

As an outside observer, the most painful part is the usa's really weird two team political system and how the people still put any trust into the dems at all. Watching and reading over and over about how things that are happening are "warnings" of the other things that have clearly already happened really puts history into perspective.

The us is now at the point that supporting ether party or even the nation itself would be seen as "crazy" or "misinformed" if reading it in a history book (or wiki article, etc.). The time for happy involvement in the political system to enact change was so long ago it gives me a sense of discordance reading about the actions of the american people vs the actions of their government.

Please, focus on what you can do. But also please, try and be pragmatic and not just put the future of your nation on the party that has clearly shown they are incapable of any action.

[–] Zaktor@sopuli.xyz 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

The way to act in a two party system is to take over a party and purge the people who were a problem. The Republicans were always bad and always racist, but not like this. We've seen a party get consumed by an insurgent faction. There's nothing forgone about "the Democrats" always being what they have been.

[–] M0oP0o@mander.xyz 7 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

I would hope the way to act in a two party system is to take it down and make a non two party system. Its just not a viable system.

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[–] mos@lemmy.world 14 points 2 weeks ago

Was the expansion of ICE under Biden connected to the centrist delusion that if democrats take these kinds of actions they will bring people from the far right to the left?

[–] Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works 8 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

It's too late to avoid damage, but not too late to avoid total destruction.

I wish Lemmy had fewer doomers. I get it - horrible things are happening. Failures are taking place all over the country, and heart wrenching acts are being committed

It's bad.

This said, things can get much, much worse. People and systems are still fighting, and both are sometimes winning. These are small battles in a larger war, but we shouldn't discount the bravery and sacrifice that is actually getting results, however small many may be.

So no, it's not too late to save the USA. But yes, the USA is actively failing, being divided, and breaking under the stress of the cruelty and apathy of countless millions of awful people, chief amongst them those that are currently in charge (the GOP led by Trump).

But that's the thing... Apathy is an ingredient. Doomerism creates apathy. Fight this just as hard as you fight Trump, everyone. It's his tool, so stop giving him strength.

[–] eugenevdebs@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

The last dude ran on not being Trump, but gave him a faster car after he crashed the last one with his drinking buddies.

Instead of pushing for harder limits to stop him, he just acted like his hands were tied, he had to fund the Neo-Nazi Police Department, he had to build more of the border wall that Trump wanted, he had to keep Trump's tax cuts for the rich to afford more propaganda.

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[–] eugenevdebs@lemmy.dbzer0.com 41 points 2 weeks ago (6 children)

The same party that didn't arrest Trump even when it was an open and shut case of treason?

The same party that kept ICE funded?

The same one that called out Dubya's surveillance program after they voted for it, and then tried to arrest Snowden?

The same party that allows border cages for ICE?

The same party that loudly said "we don't need to defund the police, we need to fund the police!" in a state of the union adresss to bipartisan applause?

I'll hope that the midterms and next nominee change these lack of action polices, but it seems like the suspected frontrunners are going to aim for the status quo of 2020, not pushing for a better 2028.

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[–] SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 40 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (8 children)

The Dems couldn't even get on board with local PDs being held accountable for extra judicial killings in 2020.

They called the protests riots and the protesters looters.

[–] IAmNorRealTakeYourMeds@lemmy.world 11 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

that's why they'll only talk and posture with ice.

because if they go after ICE for abuse violations or fight against their qualified immunity, then it'll set a precedent against their police.

[–] SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 10 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

It horrified me how in sync the Republicans and Democrats were in 2020 when it came to stomping down the last vestiges of the Civil Rights Movement

[–] IAmNorRealTakeYourMeds@lemmy.world 8 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

They aren't on the same side, they just share corporate donors

[–] SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Is there a meaningful difference?

[–] IAmNorRealTakeYourMeds@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago

only in their branding.

[–] notwhoyouthink@lemmy.zip 7 points 2 weeks ago

Two wings of the same bird.

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[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 33 points 2 weeks ago (5 children)

It doesn't need to exist at all...

Wild that the author doesn't know that, I'm not sure if they're just ignorant or controlled opposition.

It's getting really hard to tell these days who's being intentionally ignorant, or who's just pretending

[–] Tinidril@midwest.social 21 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Everyone is just pretending to some extent or another. An absolutely sober truth teller would be entirely unpalatable to most voters. There's always going to be some amount of smoothing over of the facts. It's just a matter of deciding what's acceptable. In this case, I'll take anyone who doesn't pretend that ICE or the CBP can be somehow reformed. There also have to be criminal prosecutions.

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[–] WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world 17 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I consider the US to be suffering a mental illness epidemic... ever since 9/11, really. The fervent nationalism and propaganda displayed back then was insane, and it's only gotten worse.

All of US conservatisms mental-illnesses are self evident, but the "liberals" are also so brainwashed and propagandized that they're still holding out for future elections while the dictatorship is installed before their very eyes, their only hope for leadership is 1% career politicians and billionaires, and it is well beyond the stage for wide scale general strikes, and preparation of armed insurgency and secession.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago

ever since 9/11, really. The fervent nationalism and propaganda displayed back then was insane, and it’s only gotten worse.

9/11/02 I got sent home from school because I worse a shirt that said "bad cop, no doughnut"...

Even tho no one could explain to me what it had to do with 9/11, me saying I forgot it was 9/11 didn't help either.

they’re still holding out for future elections

I'm not saying don't have a plan b, just that there's no reason to pre-emptively give up on plan a...

Especially since we finally got a non biased DNC chair. I think you're upset they're not overtly progressive, but that is short sighted. If we try to keep the DNC corrupt, but to our advantage long term nothing gets fixed.

It's like LOTR and deciding Gollum had the best plan. We gotta throw that shit in the volcano or it will corrupt us too. We can't use something as corrupt as the One Ring for good, that's why Gandalf didn't just put it on and 1v1 Sauron, because he'd win and in the process become even worse than Sauron.

For the past 8 months the DNC is being weakened, it's taking all the money Biden/Kamala had hoarded, and distributing back to state parties. Which is good, we don't want the Dem party structured with that much consolidated power. Because we can lose it. We want a bottom-top structured party.

But ignorant people think nothing is being done and still rant and rave against the DNC when we just won a 30+ year war over how it should be structured...

Billionaires just ain't going to let the media companies they own tell the masses the billionaires lost.

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[–] bagsy@lemmy.world 29 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

LOL, we are in a straight up fascist state now. the only way you getting rid of these people is with bigger scarier people.

[–] samus12345@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

The government collapsing so ICE doesn't get paid will work, too.

[–] ooterness@lemmy.world 14 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Except they're still getting paid. They're apparently "essential", but food stamps and air traffic control aren't.

[–] samus12345@sh.itjust.works 6 points 2 weeks ago

Yeah, it hasn't collapsed yet.

[–] quick_snail@feddit.nl 23 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (4 children)

How did we stop the SS?

Oh, right, armed intervention from other countries.

Please help.

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[–] M0oP0o@mander.xyz 23 points 2 weeks ago

~~ICE~~ america is out of control and beyond repair - This ~~agency~~ nation needs to be stripped down to the studs. ~~Dems~~ The world should start preparing now.

That seems better.

[–] cabbage@piefed.social 23 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

The agency doesn’t necessarily have to be abolished; we do need to enforce immigration laws. But it will have to be completely remade. And it’s not too early to start preparing.

Counterargument: It needs to be abolished. There might be elements of the American state worth salvaging the remains of. ICE is not one of them.

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[–] BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world 19 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

It needs to be abolished and every person who has ever been employed there tried for their civil rights violations.

[–] PseudoSpock@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 2 weeks ago

And tried for treason and only one sentence given.

[–] ZombieMantis@lemmy.world 18 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Don't stop at the studs, ABOLISH ICE

[–] BeautifulMind@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago

I'm old enough to remember when the term 'homeland security' was too fashy-sounding to be taken seriously. We were fine without ICE, and weirdly enough, creating it hasn't solved anything- if anything, the lies they tell to justify doing it more and harder have gotten more and more absurd.

[–] vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 10 points 2 weeks ago

Liquidate it and every other shithole agency under homeland security, with the sole exception of the Coast Guard who really should be their own thing. If the job still needs doing a new organization can be built up and old elements retained and retrained if need be.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 8 points 2 weeks ago

https://bsky.app/profile/shannonhale.bsky.social/post/3m4eif45k3c2n

I entered SLC airport and heard screams and cries for help. I could see people gathered around, watching. I sped over to discover this woman face down on the floor, four grown men pushing her down, while she cried "HELP ME" and pled for her child.

[–] adespoton@lemmy.ca 8 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

Counterpoint to all of this:

Something I’ve noticed recently in the news is that ICE makes the headlines, and then when you dig down to the details, the real problem is often CBP or some other department that’s along for the ride. Difficult to tell, I’m sure, when everyone is masked and not wearing clear identification.

Just saying that abolishing ICE wouldn’t necessarily get rid of the problem, and I suspect that there’s still a chunk of ICE you never see because they’re actually doing the work they’re traditionally supposed to be doing.

The entire system needs to be fixed, not just abolishing one department that’s been co-opted as the poster boy for the abuse of the system.

[–] rockSlayer@lemmy.blahaj.zone 14 points 2 weeks ago

you're right, it's systemic and deeply rooted. But we also need to start somewhere, and ICE is a great start to dismantling systemic oppression

[–] quick_snail@feddit.nl 5 points 2 weeks ago

It's always capitalism

[–] HubertManne@piefed.social 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

well yeah ice is under border patrol. and that has to have a total house cleaning but they have basically destroyed the ice "brand" where it needs to be eliminated. It could be replaced but again its not something that has existed for very long.

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[–] butwhyishischinabook@piefed.social 7 points 2 weeks ago

Good thing those of us that saw this coming spent a decade getting called naïve and hysterical for saying "abolish ice"... by Democrats.

[–] HubertManne@piefed.social 5 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

oh yeah republicans destroyed the brand. it certainly has to be dissolved and im not even sure if replaced as they are relatively speaking new and we did border security without them before.

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[–] TheCriticalMember@aussie.zone 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I'd like to see every ICE agent have it forcibly tattooed on their face so that for the rest of their lives they will never be able to hide what they are.

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[–] CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago

Why do you think the Confederates funded them like they have?

[–] W3dd1e@lemmy.zip 3 points 2 weeks ago

Do we have a Project 2029 yet?

[–] MrSulu@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 weeks ago

Paying any moron who want to live out thier best dream life of racism and irrefutable power trips.

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