The Deprogram Podcast

I'm reminded of when Margaret Thatcher first became Prime Minister in the UK. Some commies there supported her because they thought she would sharpen the contradictions and therefore bring about a revolution. We all know how that turned out.

Accelerationism isnt taken seriously because it doesn’t guarantee social change but more specifically to you advocating for and trying to collapse the American nation isnt accelerationism since collapsing it would actually benefit the communist movement as a whole

Accelerationism means actively working to make things worse for most people. Not only is it unnecessary because the decline is already ongoing and an eventual crisis of some sort therefore inevitable, but it is also bad strategy. Communists should not be seen to be making things worse, needless to say that is very bad optics. We should be seen as those who are most strongly on the side of the working class, defending and advancing their interests.

We want the masses to see us as trustworthy and reliable, as having their back and as those who they can trust to lead them. In order to win that trust you need more than just the right words, you need action. You need to show to the people by standing side by side with them in their struggles against capital, landlords, fascists, state violence, etc. that communists are those who will fight the hardest for their well-being.

By helping workers in their struggles you also contribute to the sharpening of contradictions as the limitations of the liberal bourgeois system are exposed and the need for a radically different system in order to fulfill all the needs and demands of workers becomes evident for more and more people. Organizing the working class is also how you prepare for "after the collapse", it's how you prepare the working class for eventually seizing power.

It is not sufficient for a collapse to occur, revolutionaries must be prepared and have the necessary support from a sufficiently large class conscious subsegment of the masses (in order to achieve this educational and agitation work is necessary) as well as the organizational infrastructure to be able to quickly mobilize the masses and fill the vacuum of power before our class enemies do.

As @starkillerfish@lemmygrad.ml said, accelerationism isn't particularly useful, and risks desparation from the reactionaries plunging the world into war. Without working class organization, there is nothing to resist that meaningfully.

I think a common pattern with your posts is that they tend to fall into desparation and confusion stemming from a lack of theory. In your case, I think reading theory would be immensely clarifying and comforting. I made an introductory Marxist-Leninist reading list, but many others out there exist as well. I recommend you give that a try!

The American empire can be simplified into 2 parts.

One is the power projection overseas, and you can't really do much about that unless you have federal executive power, which the government and adjacent organizations are structured to prevent people like you and me from gaining. It will only be the geopolitical adversaries of the empire that wear this down.

The other is national cohesion. This includes logistics, domestic production, taxation, and even peaceful participation in American life. This is the glue that you can break down.

Things are going to get worse no matter what, there's no need to push them in that direction. Instead, every revolutionary has to consider the possible moments that will set off revolution, and make themselves as prepared as possible for those moments. What is a revolutionary force going to need?

You're not going to beat the chuds gun-for-gun or bullet-for-bullet. But they don't eat guns and they don't keep warm with bullets. Their sustenance comes from a globalized system of logistics that brings electricity to their houses, gasoline to their vehicles, and meat to their bellies. Consider that a lot of the enemy lives in suburban or exurban areas, well away from distribution centers, extremely car-dependent, and not efficient in electricity use at all. These are all glaring weaknesses; their way of life is teetering. You should be thinking not about how to slaughter them all, but about how to make them realize (beforehand or in retrospect) that they cannot just do a Civil War 2 to wipe you out without critically weakening America's domestic cohesion or maybe even its global power projection.

This may seem unprompted, but it has been something I've encountered in these threads before.

In these types of posts, I want to clarify that wanting America to be cut off from it's imperial exploitation of the global south is not "accelerationism". None of the things we are offered in the west are "granted" to us, they are taken by force; either violence or economic coercion and the average person benefits from it. Even someone like me who grew up in a demunicipalized slum with no warm water, no constant electricity and no basic amenities as a child could tell you that. Despite those conditions, I still benefited from colonial exploitation of the south.

Any measure or method by any nation to enforce it's economic and political sovereignty by seeking independence from American hegemony should be supported.

since I live in America I should want to accelerate the collapse

consider that a collapse does not automatically mean things get better. fascists/military are very organised in the states, so in a collapse situation they will likely take power, without any barriers to do more atrocities. this is why accelerationism (focusing energy on collapse) is not a coherent strategy to achieve socialism. the only strategy is organising the working class

The collapse will come no matter what you do so it is better to spend your effort to make the outcome better by organizing and raising class consciousness. america is already going down really fast and there is no obvious counter to the fascists. The harder you and other american comrades work the less suffering will result from the inevitable fascist stage.

So first of all, I feel you. I want the empire and vasall states to collapse asap too.

For reasons I wont comment on what measures I deem reasonable because this is still public.

But all in all, I dont think accellerationism is bad in its own right. Imo our very job is to heighten the contradictions of capitalism and bourgois regime.

This we do through calling out the government and their bootlickers in every possible situation. This accellerates the decline. You will be called a nazi, wrecker or whatever but that is okay.

Then, one could say "vote for bad guy" or "stop helping good guy" but that does nothing. Voting makes no difference at all and helping your neighbors is probably the one thing you can ethically do without it having negative consequences on the decline.

But of course, never participate in bourgois parties or groups as they will slow the decline down as much as they can which is terrible. This thing needs to burn down and fast.

In my mind, accelerationism comes from the same thread of thought that adventurism comes from. It comes from an alienation from the masses & a certain amount of nihilism that leads us to believe the only way is for us to accelerate. Being isolated from people who think the way you do, especially about the way out, will also produce these feelings.

When I first understood communism as the solution, I tried to convince everyone around me. While I did convince people, it required a long & concerted effort over time. People in the US grew up their whole lives learning that communism was literally the fucking devil, even if logically it is the correct solution it is still going to be resisted. But when things get bad, those same people I tried to convince over time start to see it for themselves & they reach back out for answers. Your ability to convince people will not just be a quick conversation - establishing socialism in the US will be a generational project. The Soviet Union developed their project for arguably 20-30 years before the October revolution. China had a 30 year civil war before they won.

There is a fascist regime currently consolidating power wherever it can. There is more open defiance of the regime in power than we've ever seen before. There is plenty of energy to be redirected into organizing the masses & radicalizing people. This will continue - the degradation of material conditions will continue with or without you. The collapse will also come. But now is the time to put in the ground work so that people will look to you in the future.

Accelerationism increases the degradation of material conditions with no alternative. This simply leads to nihilism & creates a breeding ground for fascism. When the collapse comes, the means of production aka the way this society produces the things we need, will be degraded without an organized working force that can take control of it. These are the times when the masses can fight & take control, not react to & say "i told you so". The qualitative change, aka the "collapse", is the time for revolution - don't you want to be ready?

eh, so far it doesnt look like you need to do anything, the people in charge have it in hand

Collapse doesn't mean it's wiped off the map. All the guns and bombs will continue to exist as it becomes more and more of a failed state, there is a real possibility of lashing out and starting WWIII, and in any case the right is much better armed and poised to take advantage of the chaos.

All else being equal, I believe it's better if it doesn't collapse just yet. But we don't really get to decide that, and regardless of what we want or don't want, collapse is coming. There will be no return to the status quo, not for long anyway, because people are dissatisfied with it, and the powers that be have demonstrated that they're unwilling to make any sort of compromise to keep things running if it gets in the way of their looting.

There's no real reason to push for collapse since it's inevitable, it's better to just prepare for it so that we can best contain the damage.

Wish I could answer your question but I'm in agreement.

It pains me to imagine any of our contemporaries having to suffer at all but the unwavering commitment to electoral solutions and awareness activism from those who are left adjacent and the most conscious of the u.s populace is clear evidence that we have gotten much too comfortable riding the backs of the global south and our own domestic unfortunates to do anything of political substance.

And then you have the rest of population, liberally right or so far gone that their only salvation is to become fertilizer.

I won't belabor what we all already know, the only way out is a revolutionary crisis.