It's easy just go AAA 
like this
But for real singing is a skill that takes most people a lot of practice and patience to get right.
this post was submitted on 02 Oct 2025
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Okay but what if she's trying to hit an e rather than an a. Or worse, a c?!
Dort Owl: proud practitioner of the Can Belto school of singing.
I'm a great singer, I'll have you know
I know I know, but that sucks. Why can't stuff just be easy 
Give yourself a bit of grace, you're trying to learn how to play an instrument made of flesh
put a bucket on your head while you practice matching pitches to a piano (or whatever clean reference, like an mp3 or youtube video of a chromatic scale played slowly is fine if you don’t have a piano). The clean reference part is important, start with that so you can get a better sense of what you’re trying to match. As your pitch improves then practice songs to keep yourself interested
Rhythm is similar, practice with a metronome. Practice practice practice. No one is born with it no matter what you may believe, some people have an inclination so that it comes a bit easier and some don’t so it takes a lot more effort unfortunately, but either way you’re going to have to practice practice practice a good period of time daily (like at least 30 minutes, ideally more) consistently for many years. Your favorite singer did this, guaranteed
What's the bucket for, are you trying to make me look silly
No one is born with it no matter what you may believe,
This part I know, all skills come from practice. It does feel like I'm way behind most people though, since I didn't grow up listening actively to music or badly trying to sing or anything. It's something I've just never engaged with much, so my skills are like toddler level
It's an old trick, they're trying to steal all your sweet rolls
I knew it
You can hear your own voice better this way
The modern version is to use a microphone and headphones but who has that kind of money. Bucket on head
It’s good you recognize that though. When I gave lessons (piano is more my thing tbf) it was amazing how many people relied on that cope of “well I guess I just wasn’t born with it”. Like ugh fuck you, I played piano an hour a day starting when I was like 4 years old.
It does depend too on what your goals are though. Realistically if you want to be a conservatory singer you’re way behind since you’re here talking to me and not starting when you were 3-4. The unfortunate reality of music at that level is people get a bit nutty and start their children on a path that can be obsessive. It doesn’t mean you can’t be a classical singer but the challenge is much higher for that path, especially if you’re like 30. But if you just want to sing like pop songs? Then give it like 1-2 years of that karaoke game for ps4 and actual ear training (the above is just an old school example, there’s a ton of ways) and I bet you’ll make strides.
You can sing like an angel, I believe in you, even though I have no idea who you are and no measure of your capacity to commit to things. As embarrassing as it may be try recording yourself once or twice a month and reviewing the collected recordings every quarter or six months or so. If you put in 15-30m per day of ear training and song practice and do this I guarantee you will notice growth over time, which will hopefully be motivating
Alternatively stay bad at singing and own it: bob Dylan did it
do you think Lord Buckethead dressed that way mostly just to hear his voice better
I "learned" it thanks to my churchgoing upbringing. It's nothing like professional thing but one of my former music teachers taught me to learn how to whistle as method to understand my breathing and tune.
Im one of those "inclined" people but it was bc my sib encouraged me to sing that I got better, and our elder who encouraged them. In turn I have successfully encouraged some shy singers to get to the point where they feel comfortable enough to sing on stage. And the encouragement is just... sing. All the time! To your favorite songs. Find your favorite vocal melodies. I prefer stringed instruments for learning notes (bass / guitar)
I have taught myself to sing, and I have gotten better with time just doing it more and more and using my ear. Everything I know musically is self-taught, actually, and that includes playing instruments and writing songs, too.
I find it strange how I used to consider myself to be an absolute dogshit singer, but I have now have realized that I have Pattonesque vocal capabilities. I can sing bass vocals, gutturals/death growls, falsetto, and really just a shitload of ways that have gotten people to be shocked that such a wide number of vocal styles could come from one person.
However, I'm far from the best at this point and still teaching myself. I really just understood this stuff through messing around, though. I'm no big genius on the theory and dynamics behind vocal technique—it's all vibes for me, and that included practicing the rhythms to backing tracks, too. I may utilize sheet music to get more difficult sections down, but for the most part, I'd say I'm good at catching a feel for how the vocal parts work in a lot of songs I try to sing. Metronomes are good for rhythm too, of course.
Also, learning how to sing better indirectly taught me more about voice training for gender affirmation, so I now use an androgynous speaking voice in my day-to-day life pretty seamlessly at this point.
When I sang in class, I was always the loudest, and it was wrong.
How much are you off by? My singing teacher told me about a time when she walked into the booth and the recording engineers were talking about how much she was off by, she couldn't tell the difference either.
Oh I'm talking about like trying to hold e flat and I wobble from e to d. Not off by much, just keeping it level feels really hard.
Are you sure this isn't just a vibrato? Things get much easier one you have breathing and classical placement down. (and then you can choose to sing in straightone or non classical forms). Do you have the "Red Book" Vaccai excercises? It's kind of banal to recommend them but if you do the first 8 every day, you'll see improvement.
I don't think it's vibrato I think I'm just bad at keeping my voice at the same pitch lol
As far as the rest of what you said, it may as well be written in Latin because I have no idea what any of that means
Ok, so in western music, most singing can be thought of as a deviation in some way from the singing techniques in play from approx 1670-1840 (this is kind of an insulting view for a dozen reasons but that's beyond the scope of this post).
This singing is based on consistent support of breathing from core muscle support, which creates a consistent flow of air across the vocal chords. How this is done exactly differs between the national "schools" (variations in style) but mostly its engaging the lower abdominal muscles to create a "platform" for the diaphragm to rest on, This results in no variations in pitch or intensity across a note or phrase. Some 19th century Italian teachers are reported to have focused solely on breathing and posture for 6 months before the student was allowed to sing a note. (probably untrue, but they do focus most on the breath.)
As an excercise, stand in second position ("at ease" if you don't know ballet positions) take a deep breath, and try to not let your chest fall downwards as you run out of air on a note. That's kind of what we're talking about.
The other part is placement. where in the head the column of air is focused in your internal sensations. Different genres of music have very, very, different ideas on optimal placement, as do the different classical schools, but for this, try lifting your soft palate (the upper jaw behind your tounge) on a note, and feel where the vibration is in your skull on an ah or eh vowel.
Most classical schools want the palate high, the larynx (the voice box) low, creating sort of a near yawn sensation, and the resonance forward, between and slightly above the eyes, in "The mask". Most "popular" (again, for another rant) styles want a higher larynx to help diction, though a high palate is often useful and with other techniques like "Cover" (modifying a vowel to make it easier or more beautiful sounding) you can use a classical technique and produce, to a point, a popular sound.
Vaccai was a composer, singer, and teacher of the late early romantic period (Think Barber of Seville and the "Figaro" song) and was a conservative methodologically at a time when a more robust mode of vocal production (more like what we think of as the operatic sound) was becoming popular.
He wrote a book. designed for amateurs who wanted to sing at a high level. It's short and the excercises are short art songs based on traditional Italian poems. It's also very comprehensive and many professionals use the excercises daily. It has terrorised beginner singers for 180 years. I strongly recommend you try the first excercise, and try to sing the phrases on one breath, focusing on getting the vowels unchanging. If you don't have a keyboard. there are plenty of examples on you tube to sing to.
This isn't an attempt to get you to be classical in method or that classical is the only or best method of training. but what it does right are some really nice skills to pick up, especially if you have pitching issues.
Finally, I might note, the modern 12 tone equal temperament scale is very slightly out of tune by design, for complex musical reasons. Natural singers with good pitch tend to differ a little without an accompanying instrument.
Saving this so I can do better next time I end up at karaoke.
It's impossible to describe how much the average pub Karaoke organiser hates classically trained singers. Because we are wankers.
"Hey, got any Couperin?" "This arrangement of Amigos Para Sempre isn't historically accurate to the 1992 Barcelona rendition" "Can we transpose this Barry Manilow song to Werckmeister III temperament? I have a bach recital and I don't want to ruin my pitch sense" "I know there's already been a rendition of Phantom of the Opera tonight by a beloved regular, but we really just want to make them feel sad about their talent"
Hahaha I just want to not embarrass myself. It's a fun activity, especially when drunk, but I'm absolutely terrible at it. I've heard others say to pick a favorite song to do over and over again that your voice is good with, but I don't know what song that would be either, so maybe I'll start to see if I can get anything from all that text and practicing on my commute 😂
So thorough! Thank you, excellent post, I've got some studying to do 
I think it would be good to specifically note the cents that you are off by and whatever patterns you can spot in how it fluctuates over time.
i've found that it's all in the breath, breathing and working from the diaphragm while also noting the amount of tension you have in your body, even places like shoulders, but especially tension in the neck/jaw/tongue etc..
Have you been doing it long? Hearing the difference between notes gets easier the more you do it. If you have a piano just play notes and sign along rather than trying to stay in tune with a tuner, or you can find a video of someone playing notes slowly to pitch-match. Your mind will latch onto the pitch eventually and it will feel easier to stay in tune in time. A lot of people that are pro singers sang from before they could remember, in church or in choir growing up, so starting out fresh later on can definitely take some effort. Is there a specific style or motivation that made you start?
Nope, I just started trying to figure it out. And no particular reason for starting. I'm just the kind of person who always wants to be learning new skills.