Yo, does Bad Empana need a psychological intervention? Looks like he's crashing out. : thedeprogram

[–] LeninWeave@hexbear.net 45 points 4 days ago

He's a debatebro who spends his entire life finding things to get incredibly mad at. He'll never get better because he's an Australian who will never kill the westerner in his head.

He's repeatedly been actively harmful to other leftists, people need to stop giving this guy credit for being right about some things. That's not even the bare minimum and this kind of person is harmful when they constantly turn around and associate a position (e.g. pro-Palestine activism) with public and embarrassing streamer meltdowns.

[–] CriticalResist8@lemmygrad.ml 18 points 4 days ago (2 children)

I mean he made his brand on ragebaiting and being a contrarian, he can't be surprised that sometimes it erupts against him. I don't think anyone even knows his true politics, he's been called a trot, ultra, whatever else and he doesn't seem to want to correct the record. I remember opening his xinjiang genocide video where he wanted to do a 'fair assessment' and then he just swallowed the entire western narrative (but communistically) and then at the end said "but maybe it's not true" or something like that. yeah very fair. Great representation from a self-proclaimed communist, literally set the topic back a couple years with that video.

But this is why I don't watch money youtubers, or political youtubers in general. Their existence is predicated on making money, it's a job, and so they say things that seem to make them money. With that said I sympathize with him over the harassment he's facing from ethan klein.

In regards to zionism honestly all arguments about "80% jews support it" miss the forest for the trees. Is there something innate in Jews that predisposes them towards genocide? This is the actual question. And you have two answers: either it's a yes and so you must genocide them before they genocide you (the mysticist idealist pov), or it's a no and there can be judaism without zionism (the materialist pov).

There has been judaism for thousands of years without zionism. zionism is a very recent phenomenon. It's also not innate to Jews or judaism; lots of different peoples have participated in colonialism and settler-colonialism. Even we were we not communists would easily be taken in by colonial narratives if we were in a position of power where we profited from that colonialism. Some communists still do lol.

In Jewish teachings Israel is indeed the homeland of Jews (using the name, not the entity as it exists) but they have been forced to wander the world until the coming of the messiah. So it is forbidden for them to go back until then. zionism is a 'new'er development that estimates the messiah has already come and so it's fine to recreate israel. it also distorts traditional jewish theology to justify colonialism, a lot of it has been poisoned even in anti-zionist jews. They rewrite history to suit their entity.

Some people ask, "but why jews though?" as if it needed an answer for our praxis to happen. but we don't even know for sure why european colonialism happen. There have been dozens of theories and they are all left wanting (my own theory is it shows healthy capitalism that needs to kickstart early profits and workers, but it doesn't really explain how europe was able to start colonizing, and why them specifically).

there is also no argument agains jews living in palestine alongside palestinians. Jews have lived in Palestine since before zionism, and were accepted into Palestine at the time of the Ottoman mandate. Not all jews left Palestine but the mizrahi, as I understand it, is an invention by "israel" to try and legitimize themselves. There are Iranian Jews, Iraqi Jews, etc. they didn't historically form the mizrahi.

Sure 80% of Jews, at least in the US, support israel to varying degrees. So do Christians. By number christians are the largest zionist cohort. Non-religious people also support israel because a whole lot of people support zionism even when you explain it to them.

the fact that it's (nominally) 'jewish' colonialism... does it really make a difference? Is that really a useful distinction? Do we differentiate white colonialism from other types? I think rather this is a defensive mechanism from other settler-colonies to deflect that they are also settlers, and that 500 years time do not erase such ties. Looking into how 'israel' operates in practice I see no difference with any other settler-colonial project, they do it with modern weapons but it's the same thing. You even have the naive abolitionists ("communist party of israel") lol

[–] GlueBear@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 3 days ago

In regards to zionism honestly all arguments about “80% jews support it” miss the forest for the trees. Is there something innate in Jews that predisposes them towards genocide? This is the actual question. And you have two answers: either it’s a yes and so you must genocide them before they genocide you (the mysticist idealist pov), or it’s a no and there can be judaism without zionism (the materialist pov).

Right, so genocide is never the answer for any reason whatsoever. Period. That idea validates genocide as a means to an end/ "self defense", and quite frankly sounds like a Zionist argument trying to defend why Jews/Judaism absolutely requires genocide. We can point out societal problems that different groups of peoples have (and every nation on earth that has ever and will ever exist had/has/will have problems) in an effort to get them addressed in a nonviolent manner. There is only 1 answer if we are being honest and two answers if we're being fascists.

Contrary to popular belief: it's actually in the material interest for Jews to be Zionists the same way it's a material interest for whites to be white supremacists. Absolutely being a piece of shit has its material benefits, but you shouldn't do that because it's unethical and morally reprehensible. Similarly, everyone here is a communist because it's the most ethical and morally good thing to support; not because productive forces line go up.

The reason you see so many anti-zionist/non-zionist Jews isn't because they're afraid of the " material consequences" of being a genocide supporter, it's because genocide is disgusting and any good hearted individual with a hint of sympathy and compassion will obviously be against it. Jew or otherwise.

[–] DiamatLens@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Do you know of any better videos/sources on Xinjiang? I'm realizing most of my knowledge is from that video which is problematic.

[–] CriticalResist8@lemmygrad.ml 9 points 3 days ago

there was a thread the other day with some sources and info https://lemmygrad.ml/post/9258972

[–] Ashes2ashes@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 3 days ago (2 children)

This video has an actual Uyghur talking about her life experience and addressing some of the western lies: https://youtu.be/a1po9oTVtYw

This also has a lot of information and sources: https://redsails.org/the-xinjiang-atrocity-propaganda-blitz/

If I'm remembering right, the BE video had some true information (like legitimate sources), but the biggest problem was with how he interpreted what he saw through the absurd mental gymnastics of the western propaganda machine (one example I remember was him saying that a video of Uyghurs performing cultural dances for a reporter means their culture must be suppressed the rest of the time). There are way more informed sources out there.

[–] TheBigL@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 3 days ago

Additionally, Daniel Dumbrill, the other guest in the YouTube video, has done a bunch of debunking. Any video with him would be a good resource.

[–] TankieReplyBot@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 3 days ago

I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:

[–] stink@lemmygrad.ml 49 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Just saw that one thread. I had a similar argument against people here a couple months ago.

There is a significant portion of Jewish people living in the West who support the state of "israel".

To try and make it seem as if it's a non-issue, or anti-semitic to point out, is jewish exceptionalism, in my opinion.

If 80% of Muslims living in America supported Al-Qaeda, we'd have already been put into death camps.

[–] GlueBear@lemmygrad.ml 27 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

This is really the crux of the issue. For some reason people on the left are ready to give Jews (not all of them) a pass for being genocide supporters simply because they're Jewish. The same cannot be said of their attitude towards other genocide supporters who are of a different race.

It's like the dumbasses who think the problem is netanyahu and not the 98% of Jewish isntraelis who:

Make up majority of the occupation soldiers/genocidaires
Consistently vote for the same government they have no problem removed about and blaming the entire genocide on
Overwhelmingly support the extermination of a nation of people

It's just pathetic and quite frankly I'm sick and tired of hearing the excuses. B.E is breath of fresh air in this regard.

No one wants to name the actual problem.

[–] LeninWeave@hexbear.net 9 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

Edit: I want to preface this comment by saying that you don't seem to be conflating zionism and Jewish ethnicity/culture. My reply is more of a general comment on how people can sometimes mix these up, partially because within Israel (and especially from the perspective of a Palestinian), they have close to 100% overlap, and how it's a grave mistake to extrapolate that outside Israel where Jewish cultures exist that long predate the existence of Israel.

No one wants to name the actual problem.

Long reponse.

The actual problem is zionists. In Israel, due to the power structures in place, that's almost all Jews. Outside of Israel, you don't gain anything from tying Jews to Zionism rhetorically, that's what the zionists want. If you dig deeper into the polling, you'll see large differences by age group and financial situation among Jewish people.

I think that if someone brings up concerns of "antisemitism" in response to pro-Palestine discourse, then they should be dismissed. It's just not the case that there is any actual significant amount of antisemitism in the mainstream international pro-Palestine movement, and there literally cannot be antisemitism in Palestine, it isn't possible with the power structures at play (it's like talking about anti-white racism in America).

However, mixing the Israelis with the Jewish diaspora into one category is not only incorrect, it's an incredible own-goal that concedes to Zionists almost the entire basis for their psychotic ideology.

For some reason people on the left are ready to give Jews (not all of them) a pass for being genocide supporters simply because they're Jewish.

Liberals do this. I doubt you could find a significant percentage of actual communists who believe this.

The same cannot be said of their attitude towards other genocide supporters who are of a different race.

Liberals do this as well, sometimes, but it would also be wrong to say that e.g. Turks are inherently genocidal. Partly because it's just reactionary, and partly because it helps absolve the people who support genocide of their choice to do so. Non-zionists and anti-zionist jews exist in large numbers, and they show that the central argument of zionism is a lie. They live well outside of Israel and feel no need to commit genocide to have "their own state".

[–] GlueBear@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 4 days ago (1 children)

If you dig deeper into the polling, you’ll see large differences by age group and financial situation among Jewish people.

When it's 98% of the Jewish population of the entity, I think we can safely say that it's gonna look the same across stratifications. You don't get differences in demographics when the overall is 98%.

Liberals do this

This is just no true Scotsman fallacy; yes there are absolutely communists that do this. Anyway my comment wasn't just referring to communists alone, it was referring to everyone against the genocide.

Non-zionists and anti-zionist jews exist in large numbers

I'm not doubting this, I'm just saying that people really need to point out that Jews supporting genocide is a massive problem within the Jewish community. I think I'm being generous when I say that for every non-zionist/antizionist jew there is a genocide supporting/Zionist jew. That's not something I see addressed the way it needs to be, and the excessive coddling is absurd. Especially when other groups have been questioned significantly more for significantly less.

[–] LeninWeave@hexbear.net 4 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

When it's 98% of the Jewish population of the entity, I think we can safely say that it's gonna look the same across stratifications. You don't get differences in demographics when the overall is 98%.

I'm talking about the diaspora, not the entity. This is what I mean, the assumption that "Jewish" meant "Israeli" despite the previous sentence starting with "Outside of Israel". Mixing these two up is validating the core belief of zionists that they are the rightful representatives of all Jews.

This is just no true Scotsman fallacy; yes there are absolutely communists that do this. Anyway my comment wasn't just referring to communists alone, it was referring to everyone against the genocide.

An incredibly small fringe of communists believe this. I could find a communist that believes almost anything, that doesn't make it significant. That's also going to be largely true of any actual leftist (people who oppose capitalism, once you expand to social democrats or left-liberals it paints a very different picture). It's actually impossible to support zionism and oppose capitalism meaningfully, it inevitably leads to class-collaborationism.

I'm not doubting this, I'm just saying that people really need to point out that Jews supporting genocide is a massive problem within the Jewish community.

Anti-zionist Jews would agree with you, and so do I. It's something that should be discussed with due care, though. An important part of that discussion if the fact that Jewish is not Israeli, because that fact makes it possible for anti-zionist Jews to exist.

Especially when other groups have been questioned significantly more for significantly less.

This is the case, but I think that those discussions often (almost always, actually) were driven by or turned into simple racism. I wouldn't assume when talking to a Jewish person in the diaspora that they supported Israel unless I saw something that made me think so - especially if they're younger where it's less likely statistically. I wouldn't assume when talking to a (e.g.) Turk that they support the Armenian genocide because that would be obviously racist and serve no purpose. The people who do support these things make themselves incredibly obvious very quickly, it's easy to tell without having to guess.

[–] GlueBear@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I’m talking about the diaspora, not the entity. This is what I mean, the assumption that “Jewish” meant “Israeli” despite the previous sentence starting with “Outside of Israel”.

I apologize for not reading your comment properly. I was under the impression that we were still talking about the settlers.

I agree with you, stratification of demographics within the Jewish community (outside of the entity) would absolutely reveal patterns related to class and, especially, age.

The people who do support these things make themselves incredibly obvious very quickly, it’s easy to tell without having to guess.

There are a lot of good, polite, and well mannered people that support genocide. It's like saying every maga dumbass is frothing at the mouth white trash that collects welfare and huffs paint. A good portion of maga look like decent people until you find out more about them.

I didn't make myself clear in my previous comment. I wasn't trying to conflate the entity with Jews/Judaism in general.

[–] LeninWeave@hexbear.net 3 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

There are a lot of good, polite, and well mannered people that support genocide.

Extremely true and a good point, I just think that the reality visible to everyone is now so grotesque that even the most "liberal" zionists can't help telling on themselves. Anyone who isn't a zionist is now disgusted by "Israel", and those who aren't and believe they're not zionists are just lying to themselves. As you say, they look like decent people, I just don't think that mask holds up for anyone. Maybe I'm too optimistic, though.

I think we generally agree with each other here, thanks for the conversation. solidarity

[–] GlueBear@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 3 days ago

Yeah, thank you for the discussion. I'll read more closely next time rabbit

[–] Commiejones@lemmygrad.ml 16 points 4 days ago

It isn't "Jewish" it is zionist exceptionalism and white supremacy. They hate non-zionist Jews more than they hate chirstian zionists. They hate African Jews enough to sterilize them.

zionism is to Judaism what wahhabism is to Islam and what 80% of christian denomnations are to the teachings of Jesus.

[–] miz@lemmygrad.ml 40 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

stop trying to trick me into going on bluesky. I will never go on bluesky!

[–] baffled_and_aghast@lemmygrad.ml 36 points 4 days ago (3 children)

I'm disgusted by his pro imperialist takes on Ukraine, Venezuela and Xinjiang. I don't care what he's like on social media or what his other positions are. He launders state department talking points.

[–] TankieTanuki@hexbear.net 35 points 4 days ago

Don't forget his doxxing of other socialists

[–] deathtoreddit@lemmygrad.ml 26 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Indeed, on that area, B.E's very much a dipshite.

Edit: downvoter on here and there is a connard

[–] KrasMazov@lemmygrad.ml 13 points 4 days ago

Also by his ableism and transphobia

[–] MasterBlaster@lemmygrad.ml 24 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

There's a good moral to be found here regarding essessentialism, that no one is defined entirely by one belief or action. Its healthy to be able to identify where you agree and disagree with a person, and not necessarily consider their opinions as a holistic package, instead a fracture of differently informed experiences. If you can work together with the parts you agree with, and not be held back by disagreements, you'll achieve more than those who are caught on purity and optics.

[–] burlemarx@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 4 days ago

Great comment.

[–] glimmer_twin@hexbear.net 26 points 4 days ago

He’s always been pretty bonkers on social media

[–] Commiejones@lemmygrad.ml 20 points 4 days ago

BE needs reeducation. He is't a leftist he is a streaming grifter with some leftist affects. More than half the time he is just wrong.

[–] King_Simp@lemmygrad.ml 13 points 4 days ago

Eh, seems to he his usual stuff. But also anyone on Twitter or a twitter derivative probably needs psychological intervention so...

[–] sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml 14 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (2 children)

Does the 70/30 rule apply to BE? /j

[–] Jabril@hexbear.net 37 points 4 days ago (2 children)

70% bad 30% empanada

[–] Commiejones@lemmygrad.ml 20 points 4 days ago

This is very funny

[–] miz@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 3 days ago

🔥🔥🔥

[–] cfgaussian@lemmygrad.ml 20 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Yeah, but in reverse. His takes on Palestine and Zionism are generally good. Same with some Latin American issues. Almost everything else is bad.

[–] puppygirlpets@hexbear.net 7 points 4 days ago (3 children)

other than the queerphobic shit he's 100% correct

[–] KrasMazov@lemmygrad.ml 18 points 4 days ago

Nah, he's wrong about Xinjiang and Ukraine. Also he's not only queerphobic but ableist too.

[–] Commiejones@lemmygrad.ml 18 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

He completely denies the banderite violence against Russian speaking Ukraine and the removal of their language rights.

[–] redchert@lemmygrad.ml 11 points 4 days ago

Literally the maga line on trans people but coached in leftist language. He would unironically say baristas are just as bad as IDF soldiers because they personally burn down the rainforest for soy milk

[–] frogbellyratbone_@hexbear.net 2 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (3 children)

there's seemingly a lot jewish people who are zionists and/or support israel... it's fucked.

B Empanada seems to not understand (or i'm misinterpreting him) that this demonstrates more about the Israeli PR machine than anything about being jewish.

he tends to take this point-of-view about all western citizens too. just edge lord bullshit "oh you are from the US okay you drench yourself daily in Iraqi blood" type bullshit.

[–] Kumikommunism@hexbear.net 24 points 4 days ago

You are misinterpreting him. All takes on relating Zionism to Jewishness, from all people, are bad. His point is that it does not matter. If you are an anti-Zionist Jew, cool, you don't deserve extra praise. If you are a Zionist Jew, that's awful, you deserve just as much hate as any other genocide supporter.

[–] AlexanderTheIronFist@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 4 days ago

he tends to take this point-of-view about all western citizens too. just edge lord bullshit "oh you are from the US okay you drench yourself daily in Iraqi blood" type bullshit.

But he is objectively correct, though. You do. Your lifestyle, as bad as it is, is only possible with the suffering of the entire global south. The US and western Europe will need to be entirely destroyed for the liberation of the global south to be possible, there is simply no debating this.

[–] LeninWeave@hexbear.net 8 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

he tends to take this point-of-view about all western citizens too. just edge lord bullshit "oh you are from the US okay you drench yourself daily in Iraqi blood" type bullshit.

I disagree with this comparison because it's completely reasonable to expect someone to be ashamed of being American or of being Israeli, but not reasonable at all to expect someone to be ashamed of being Jewish.

There's a qualitative difference between a nationality and an ethnicity/cultural group that predates any existing state.

My main problem with BE is that he's just wrong a lot of the time, and actively and materially harmful to other people who are much better leftists than him.

[+] azalea_simsii@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 4 days ago

[deleted]

[–] Gorillatactics@hexbear.net -1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I feel like BE realized there's no reward for being a premature antifascist and is now lashing out at people who came to the right position later.

[–] Kumikommunism@hexbear.net 20 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Liberal Zionism is not the "right position".

[–] The_Grinch@hexbear.net 13 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

Yeah it took them 2 years to come to a milquetoast, weak anti-zionism. The libs' trial by bullying is far from complete. If we let them get away claiming ignorance they'll just do the same thing next genocide.

[–] redchert@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 4 days ago

They already talk about the „non-stop“ protests in Tel Aviv and how „11% is making israel look bad“

The Deprogram Podcast