this post was submitted on 02 Sep 2025
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debatable if it's slop or theory, but probably comrades will soon meet these arguments in the wild, and not that one has to abandon all theoretical considerations over geopolitical realism of the 20th century.

although it's all rather useless, treatlerism stays undefeated whether one thinks stalin was correct or not, got money from cia or not, decided to become culture critic or not

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[–] Cowbee@hexbear.net 47 points 4 weeks ago (17 children)

Ultimately, it's a hit piece from Bordigists that are trying to defend the merits of the same western Marxism Losurdo had dead to rights in Western Marxism. They use "neo-Stalinism" to reference the resurgance of Marxism-Leninism in the west, and consistently downtalk AES. They also uphold the secret speech as legitimate, and believe markets are capitalism in and of themselves, downplaying the existence of socialism in real life.

It's slop, ultimately, and I hope that doesn't count as breaking the sectatian rule here. So many of their arguments are utterly unbacked and rest on the assumed success of prior ultraleft arguments against socialism in real life, so many of their arguments rely on the debunked secret speech, and ultimately they work backwards from their conclusions to make a hitpiece on Losurdo for calling them out.

[–] plinky@hexbear.net 16 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (1 children)

i do believe tilting from geopolitics backwards to defend some parts of questionable (dengist) policies as leftist is also problematic tbh. Doesn't make western marxist non-concerned with imperialism, largely, irrelevant for any kind of liberation

Sometimes Losurdo simply placed a date next to a lengthy extract from Bobbio or Tronti and then went on to narrate some dramatic event going on around the time. “On May 7, 1954, at Dien Bien Phu, a popular army led by the Communist Party put an end to French colonial domination of Indochina.”68 Meanwhile, Bobbio and della Volpe were wasting their time arguing whether or not the USSR enjoyed civil liberties. “We are in 1966.”

i think this passage, unless i'm misreading it, is very illuminating author's priorities tbh. Probably as zizek whining about china

[–] Cowbee@hexbear.net 27 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (1 children)

Losurdo is imperfect, no Marxist is. Even Marx made some mistakes (though ultimately minor compared to his achievements). Red Sails has a good article called Losurdo and Roberts where they go over the strengths and weaknesses of the two, and how they complement and cover each other. This article, on the other hand, is far less useful. As I already stated, they make blanket assumptions and don't back them:

  1. Socialism is impossible without revolution in the global north
  2. Khruschev's secret speech is valid and correct
  3. The presense of private property at all means the state is "nominally" socialist, but capitalist in actuality, ie the "one drop rule" that goes directly against dialectical materialism and pretends socialism is the only "pure" mode of production (with the addition of communism)
  4. "Neo-Stalinism" is a thing

And so forth. The faults with Losurdo pale in comparison to the faults with the author and this essay, and it isn't close. Any criticism, reasonable or otherwise (I'd argue towards otherwise), of Losurdo's "Dengism" is purely in service of a backwards, ultraleft position that directly undermines existing socialism in the "proud" tradition of western Marxism.

Losurdo's merits, on the other hand, are quite high. He demystifies Stalin, defends the gains of existing socialism, and tears down self-important Marxists in the global north that refuse to organize yet think the world depends on their own revolution. Over-emphasizing Losurdo's faults while relying on faulty assumptions means the article itself is bad.

[–] plinky@hexbear.net 9 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (2 children)

I mean, there is an interesting tension that on foreign policy (aside from liquidating hordes of nazis by stalin), khruschev is more celebrated (with some large sectarian points of disagreement) despite his duplicity on internal policy, while stalin was more conciliatory towards the west with more marxist-compatible internal policy and economics (this side of ethnic displacement).

khrushchev-fist is a land of contrast, and is defended by no one, curiously.

[–] Cowbee@hexbear.net 16 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (3 children)

Stalin wasn't bad with foreign policy, as someone focused on rapid development as the most critical task of socialism in his time, there was less opportunity for it. The Cold War, post-WWII, gave Khrushcev more of a chance to engage with the west as a new, emerging superpower. In the meantime, domestically, Khrushchev had sown a good amount of the seeds that would end up undermining the Soviet Union.

Different leaders, different times, different conditions. Swap their timelines and the conditions (low development, needing industrialization vs recovery from war and preventing apocalypse) wouldn't have been too different, but I doubt Stalin would have fumbled like Krushchev did.

[–] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 23 points 4 weeks ago (4 children)

People who blame Stalin for not immediately continuing to bleed the Soviet people dry after the War and instead chosing to give the peoples under the Comecon pact space to breath and rebuild are myopic to the fact that Khrushchev not only continued Stalin's policy of not directly confronting the western powers in conflict but also concretely embedding the policy of peaceful coexistence into Soviet foreign policy during his tenure as well which would last all the way to the end of the Union.

[–] Cowbee@hexbear.net 15 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Yep, absolutely. Stalin wasn't conciliatory towards the west. I understand the fire and desire people have to engage in open warfare with the west, but coming out of the Great Patriotic War, the number 1 task was to rebuild and not fall behind in nuclear technology. Stalin already planted the seeds for future soviet foreign policy. That's not even getting into the fact that the USSR was comprehensively democratic and not simply ruled over by those in the politburo.

[–] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 15 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

I always tell people the first martial policy Stalin implemented after achieving victory over the nazi regime was an immediate demobilization of construction workers, teachers, engineers, farm workers, everyone necessary to begin immediate post-war rebuilding. There was literally zero desire to continue fighting beyond the defensive war among the Soviet people

[–] Cowbee@hexbear.net 14 points 4 weeks ago

Yep, as would make sense. You lost 27 million people to a genocidal war, and came out victorious at great human cost. Who would continue fighting?

[–] MohammedTheCommunistPalestinian@hexbear.net 8 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

I don't care about that but Stalin did a lot of stupid stuff on foreign policy

see Israel ,Yugoslavia - USSR split

[–] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 10 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

In a hyper-reductionist and simplified paragraph, Israel was an inevitability and the collective Soviet presidium made a gamble to try and create a socialist aligned or sympathetic government but ended up losing the bet.

And the Soviet-Yugoslav split was primarily along the lines of whether or not Yugoslavia should've pursued expansionist policies that would've caused even worse deterioration of diplomatic relations in the fragile peace between the western powers and the Warsaw Pact. If Yugoslavia was allowed to annex Albania, Greece, and federate with Bulgaria and create a Balkan Federation, would the growingly anti-communist paranoid western powers not have become more rabid in stomping down on communist movements around the world? Would the DPRK have been defeated, nuclear bombs authorized to be used in all conflicts to contain the red tide? Oceans of blood spilt for a Federation that couldn't even last a few scant years after the death of Tito?

Frankly, Soviet policy has plenty to criticize yet out of all the socialist powers that have existed and still exist to this day it still stands at the vanguard of the best possible actions taken in contrast to mistakes made.

[–] MohammedTheCommunistPalestinian@hexbear.net 8 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Frankly, Soviet policy has plenty to criticize yet out of all the socialist powers that have existed and still exist to this day it still stands at the vanguard of the best possible actions taken in contrast to mistakes made.

Cuba and the DPRK are not thhhat powerful yet unironically have had better foreign policy but I understand what you mean

[–] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 8 points 4 weeks ago

I agree, it's an interesting enough occurrence to warrant studying what decisions, education, policies, etc. That sets them apart from other socialist states.

[–] purpleworm@hexbear.net 8 points 4 weeks ago

I agree with you about Israel, but Yugoslavia was run by miserable revisionists from the get-go, despite this board inheriting reddit's "epic bacon tito" aesthetic sympathies.

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[–] MohammedTheCommunistPalestinian@hexbear.net 9 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Stalin wasn't bad with foreign policy

no he was pretty terrible ,recognized Israel ,Mao did a lot of dumb shit but he never did that even after the deal with Kissinger

[–] Cowbee@hexbear.net 12 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Stalin's recognition of Israel was absolutely one of his worst mistakes, undoubtedly. I will not minimize that, nor was that my intention. However, in the grand context, he was generally more correct than not, which was what I was getting at.

[–] SickSemper@hexbear.net 8 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (1 children)

Would you say he was… 70% good 30% bad?

[–] Cowbee@hexbear.net 12 points 4 weeks ago

Hard to put a % on it. I get the joke, though.

[–] purpleworm@hexbear.net 7 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

idk, it's hard for me personally to imagine a worse single foreign policy action than dissolving Comintern, short of allying with the Nazis (which Stalin obviously didn't do, despite the claims of many fabulists) or something ridiculous like that

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[–] MohammedTheCommunistPalestinian@hexbear.net 7 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (1 children)

foreign policy (aside from liquidating hordes of nazis by stalin), khruschev is more celebrated (with some large sectarian points of disagreement) despite his duplicity on internal policy, while stalin was more conciliatory towards the west with more marxist-compatible internal policy and economics (this side of ethnic displacement).

is a land of contrast, and is defended by no one, curiously.

doesn't your first statement contradict what you say in the end

I was gonna say actually there are people that do but I re read your comment and your comment kinda of says that

[–] plinky@hexbear.net 7 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (1 children)

I meant more that support for anti-colonial struggles, including vietnam/cuba and pan-african/arabic movements, is more khruschev (period) lane, and what people typically praise ussr for. Whether it is contingent on party being there, at the right time, or whether it was more genuine sympathies/antipathies over korea handling, one cannot attribute same level of brazen anti-western policy to stalin.

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[–] purpleworm@hexbear.net 9 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

I am pretty sure Bordiga isn't covered under the sectarianism thing.

[–] Cowbee@hexbear.net 7 points 4 weeks ago

I figured, considering we are pretty clearly pro-AES overall.

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[–] grandepequeno@hexbear.net 34 points 4 weeks ago

His intellectual output constitutes nothing less than the (re)entry of Stalinism into the realm of philosophy.

Philosophy could probably use a bit more of that honestly

[–] MLRL_Commie@hexbear.net 34 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (1 children)

I would double down on Cowbees recommendation of the Red Sails Article about him and Roberts.

Shit hit piece. Read the first part and learned nothing and was only frustrated.

"As might be gathered from these claims, Losurdo’s appraisal of Western Marxism was overwhelmingly negative. He instead recommended verbally supporting developmentalist regimes in the Third World building socialism in isolation. In other words, Losurdo advocated a form of neo-Stalinism."

Who's isolating the third world movements, Bordigist? big-honk

[–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 9 points 3 weeks ago

"Stop sanctioning yourself berdly-smug "

[–] thethirdgracchi@hexbear.net 33 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Imagine trying to write a hit piece at perhaps the most rigorous Marxist theorist the West has seen in half a century, couldn't be me. Any article earnestly arguing that "Stalinism" is a) something that exists and b) something that is relevant in any form to 2025 is quite frankly ridiuclous.

[–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 6 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

cardboard-monsters but the cardboard cutouts are a fucking century old

[–] dastanktal@hexbear.net 27 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (8 children)

I haven't finished reading this, but I thought y'all would be interested to know that Ross Wolfe is a graduate from the University of Chicago. You know, the known psyop, that does its absolute best to turn real Marxist theory into the bullshit they peddle in the west.

This is something Gabriel Rockhill actually talks about in one his interview is promoting the new translation from Losurdo, Western Marxism, how it rises and how it falls.

Edit:

Took a few days and was finally able to chew through it. Basically it boils down to "no international revolution in the west no communism".

It's also a total rejection of socialism in isolation. Which means he obviously doesn't support any already existing socialist states.

Based on my reading of the Foundations of Leninism, it seems that this author is twisting the words of Lenin to make it seem as if Lenin hadn't changed his theories of socialism in isolation and the need for an international revolution.

Both of these themes—the need for coordinated international proletarian revolution in the most advanced countries, and the reabsorption of state power by society—will be explicated further in the third part of this essay. Needless to say, Losurdo diverged sharply from what Marx, Engels, and Lenin had to say

I think a wonderful way to describe his beef with this is that if the west isn't leading the revolution, then in his mind it's not communism.

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[–] MF_COOM@hexbear.net 24 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

Honestly I'm not really against a principled critical argument against Losurdo's overall technique (I do think he has a tendency to cherry-pick and strawman) but the tone of this is that of a defensive trot and it's so long to read this much from just some guy on a blog.

So yeah not reading free Palestine

[–] Lemmygradwontallowme@hexbear.net 17 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

but the tone of this is that of a defensive trot

It's a Bordigaist site so left-com (from western left)

[–] Kopfrkingl@hexbear.net 9 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Man I wish all communists could get together — the ones online of course, since in real life I've found this isn't much of a problem. The way the far right can coalesce — which is mainly because of their non-existent ideology — needs opposition in the form of a united communist front with minimal — I won't say without — infighting. It's easier in real life since the essence of our ideology is more or less identical and I'd say everyone is earnest in its pursual.

[–] Jabril@hexbear.net 7 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

All communists can get together, the problem is there are a lot of people who call themselves communists and truly are not

[–] purpleworm@hexbear.net 9 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

In defense of the people within popular tendencies (not the tendencies themselves) that I think you might call "not communist," there is also an issue of people being severely miseducated on what other people believe, such as people thinking that all so-called "Stalinists" uncritically support everything that Stalin said and believed and that these things included stabbing smol bean anarchists in the back in Spain and Makhnovchina for the sake of power. I believe this miseducation is the source of a lot of division and we have seen that intelligence agencies deliberately stoke such things.

[–] Jabril@hexbear.net 6 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

It's especially challenging with Stalin since, as materialists, we want to be able acknowledge the good and the bad, but most of the "bad" that we hear about are outright lies, historical revisionism, or things that can't be blamed on a single individual. It puts us in the position of starting the conversation by defending him from falsehoods, since the conversation always starts with falsehoods. As communists we need to be able to discuss the history and theoretical development in order to properly educate and theorize in the present moment, and Stalin is an important part of that process who, when erased, always leads back to inherently anti-communist education and theory

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[–] MLRL_Commie@hexbear.net 12 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

I see this more often, the "cherry-pick/strawman" accusation. Can you elaborate more? I often think that it's a disagreement with method moreso than a well landed hit on his works. I think that because his methodology is very much empirical, looking exactly for how cases in reality played out, and then afterwards he starts searching for which ideological support existed for that case at the time. He prioritizes the empirical side, and picks the Marx/Engels/Lenin/Gramsci quote that he supposes supported it.

I guess in other words, do you see him doing the same "cherry picking and strawmanning" in his hit pieces on Liberalism? Because that's the book that made me understand his method and made his work method in general clear.

I don't mean this confrontationally, I really want to know. If the tone seems that way, it's my English, sorry they-were-comrades

[–] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 16 points 4 weeks ago

Chicago school fake "socialist" liberals stay mad, all rhetoric no facts

[–] TheBroodian@hexbear.net 11 points 4 weeks ago

This reads like a lot of hot farts. What is your fucking point, Ross Wolfe?

[–] 9to5@hexbear.net 8 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

thought this was a spooky post first

[–] Eldritch@hexbear.net 8 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I'm sorry to do this but this is who wrote this piece.

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[–] RaisedFistJoker@hexbear.net 7 points 3 weeks ago
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