this post was submitted on 23 Oct 2023
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32
Jackson Hinkle’s hypocrisy on Ukraine vs Palestine (lemmy.ml)
submitted 2 years ago by tomasz@lemmy.ml to c/the_dunk_tank@hexbear.net
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[–] nat_turner_overdrive@hexbear.net 36 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Ukraine: has border control with neighboring states, citizens and supplies can transit across it. Has billions and billions of dollars in aid from the west, military training, had the largest military in Europe. Russia has offered peace agreements many times but Ukraine either violates them or scuttles talks every time.

Gaza: no border control, no ability to move supplies or people across any border. Does not have military aid from the west, does not have military training from the west, does not have an official military, is not recognized as a sovereign state by the west. Israel has not been willing to even engage in talks in over a decade, Israel also continues to violate international law.

These are the same.

[–] cleoburymortimer@hexbear.net 6 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

oh yeah the civilians living in ukraine who have little influence over their far-right, nazi-beholden govt are totally deserving of the violence they're experiencing at the hands of the US and Russia. definitely a good thing to be agreeing with Hinkle on this issue.

this website is great except for the multipolarista losers lol

[–] nat_turner_overdrive@hexbear.net 25 points 2 years ago (1 children)

where did I say the Ukrainians deserve it?

thanks in advance!

[–] zifnab25@hexbear.net 8 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Ukraine: has border control with neighboring states, etc

Does seem to imply that Ukrainians have this control. Very clearly, the folks in the Donetsk Oblast do not. But even folks in Western Ukraine have very little control over what now amounts to a military dictatorship in their country. So your original comment somewhat obfuscates the relationship between "Ukraine" and "Ukrainians" in so far as they're being offered very few options that don't involve fleeing, mobilizing, or dying.

If one wanted to be superficial, one might make some comparison between the Azov brigade currently supported and financed by the US/EU and Hamas which receives some significant support from Shia-aligned Muslim states and communities. If one wanted to be overly broad, one could argue that the bombings and troop movements along the Ukraine-Russia front line have the same sociological impact as the Israeli incursion into Gaza and parts of the West Bank.

So in a lot of ways they are the same, at least in so far as people living in a war zone are subject to inconceivable horrors.

I've seen a few more vitriolic folks suggest that this or that group "deserve" getting bombed because they didn't oppose the war effort zealously enough. I'm not seeing that in your post, but I can understand how frustration with that type of poster might get displaced.

Either way, I'd say the Ukrainian refugee and the Gaza refugee have a lot more in common than you're giving credit. If nothing else, they're both kettled within their home countries by hostile neighbors and told to throw their lives away in this endless blood-feud if they want any kind of access to the thinning supply of resources the residents are allowed.

[–] nat_turner_overdrive@hexbear.net 12 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I can't say I agree, but maybe I wasn't clear. Ukraine has a government that is internationally recognized, people got to vote. I don't have any say in what my government in the US does, but I /do/ have a government and I could vote if I wanted to. Palestinians in Gaza do not. Whether either party deserves what's happened to the average people involved wasn't addressed at all in my comment, but to be clear: they do not.

Bad faith interpretations from nine day old accounts who curiously haven't defined pronouns shouldn't really be entertained seriously.

[–] zifnab25@hexbear.net 6 points 2 years ago

Ukraine has a government that is internationally recognized, people got to vote.

A big part of recent Ukrainian politics involved a series of coups and a deliberate effort by Western politicians to disenfranchise Easterners - particularly Russian-speaking Slavs.

I don't have any say in what my government in the US does, but I /do/ have a government and I could vote if I wanted to. Palestinians in Gaza do not.

The whole problem with politics in Gaza is that the Israelis regularly track, arrest, and assassinate anyone in Gaza that gets near a position of political authority. This isn't merely a voting problem.

Ukraine has had similar problem, in so far as its leadership was crippled under Euromaidan protests of 2014 and its Parliament plagued by foreign interventions on all fronts. The nation isn't sovereign in any meaningful sense. It is simply a satrap that's caught between larger empires. Certainly not as bad as the open air prison of Gaza (at least until the invasion) but still not what I'd call autonomous or democratic in any serious sense.

Bad faith interpretations from nine day old accounts who curiously haven't defined pronouns shouldn't really be entertained seriously.

Idk if I'm going to throw a flag on someone for failing to set their pronouns in profile. That seems like a cheap shot.

[–] MF_COOM@hexbear.net 26 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Is this hypocrisy? IDK it's pretty easy to get here with a consistent (if simplistic) world view

[–] RyanGosling@hexbear.net 16 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

He’s a “patriotic socialist,” so yeah his worldview is quite simplistic in that it’s “controversial country GOOD no matter what”. Wouldn’t be surprised if antisemitism was a factor here. Any socialist would condemn cutting off crucial resources to civilians while still having a nuanced analysis of the situation

[–] GVAGUY3@hexbear.net 24 points 2 years ago

Considering he is a PatSoc, he probably is one of those few guys that only support Palestine because he is actually an Antisemite.