One group that doesn’t love this technology is sex workers. The software can’t credibly discern between real escort ads and sex-trafficking-disguised-as-escort ads, meaning consenting adults often get swept up in its surveillance. In fact, a recent study funded by the Department of Justice found that police regularly mistake certain “red flags” in escort ads — like 24/7 availability or the use of specific emojis — for signs of trafficking.

That Thorn uses Amazon’s facial recognition tool is especially contentious. Research by MIT and the ACLU has shown that it falsely identified people of color, and the company itself has banned police departments from using Rekognition, except in trafficking cases through software like Spotlight.

[–] FoundTheVegan@kbin.social 60 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

In 2011, a public-awareness campaign for DNA featured Donald Trump, Jamie Foxx, and the slogan “Real Men Don’t Buy Girls.”

Donald - "they just let you do it" - "beauty pageant dressing room" - Trump

🙄

Kutcher and his first wife, Demi Moore, founded an organization called DNA in 2009 after watching a Dateline special

Combine this with Kutcher not knowing Masterson and scientology numerous trafficking accusations really illuminates how unserious they were about the program.

This was always just a PR move for Kutcher, so he doesn't care if he is doing damage to legitimate sex workers. Much like FOSTA/SESTA, it's real easy for anyone who wants to boost their image, lawmakers included, to play the hero as you take a "protect the children at all costs zero tolerance" stance and handwave away the harm you do "helping".

[–] Bonesince1997@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 years ago

Well said

[–] Uranium3006@kbin.social 1 points 2 years ago

Of course, that's the point.

[–] CeeBee@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

That Thorn uses Amazon’s facial recognition tool is especially contentious. Research by MIT and the ACLU has shown that it falsely identified people of color,

No, what the ACLU did was knowingly leave the default setting of 80% confidence and do a "surprised" face when they got almost exactly 20% false detections.

They knew exactly what they were doing.

Amazon even responded to their claims criticising the lack of proper setup for such a complex system. But the ACLU's excuse was that it was the default setting, so they just used whatever it came with out of the box.

So all they managed to prove is that the default setting isn't adequate for accurate identification, and has nothing to do with what the system is able to do when correctly configured.

Edit: I see I'm being downvoted for stating facts.

[–] CmdrShepard@lemmy.one 22 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Is there any evidence to suggest that law enforcement agencies have these complex systems properly configured? I've seen plenty of articles talking about minorities being arrested after some facial recognition software misidentified them. Claiming that the ACLU isn't using the software properly doesn't mean that anyone else is using it properly.

[+] CeeBee@lemmy.world -6 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

You're talking about something else entirely. The ACLU's argument is "these systems are so bad we can't rely on them" and your argument is "law enforcement may not have them configured correctly".

One of those is factually false.

That being said, every FR system is built differently, and have their own advantages and considerations. But from what I've seen in the news over the past few years is almost always a policy and procedure failure. At some point between using a photo of such low quality that it shouldn't be used to the verifying officer looking at the source photo and recognizing the current suspect are different people, something broke down.

I'm actually astonished at how bad the average person is at comparing photos of people. Just look up the conspiracy nonsense these flat earthers go on about regarding the Challenger accident. They are convinced that each person that died are actually still alive and living under a new name. Then they show their evidence and I couldn't believe what I was seeing. Sure, these people are similar enough that they could fit a verbal description, but when you actually compare features it's so easy to see they're all different people and can't be the same.

I know it's like that with some cops, because I know some people in emergency services that have been taking FR courses. They told me that so many departments (fire, police, 911 dispatch, forensics, etc) are being trained on it. And not for the software, it's for physically identifying people. With this tech and these false arrests I guess it's come to light that some people, cops or not, lack the fundamental ability to see minor but critical differences in facial anatomy.

Ultimately, whatever a computer system says, a person is making the final decision to arrest these people. This is where the issue lies.

Edit: I guess downvotes mean "I don't like that you're right" here also. I worked in the FR field for almost a decade. I'm familiar with the topic.

[–] the_q@lemmy.world 29 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Ashton Kutcher.

[–] HughJanus@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 years ago

Jack Nicholson

[–] SpeedLimit55@lemmy.world 23 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Interesting article though I would not expect a technology company to have all of the answers. The police are doing the actual work and need to be held accountable.

[–] kitonthenet@kbin.social 22 points 2 years ago

yes, but thorn is lobbying for changes to EU law that would require tech companies there to, among other things, purchase thorn's product to scan user's data

[+] Pratai@lemmy.ca -71 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Oh for the love of god. When did we get to the point where EVERYTHING is a sinister plot hook.

Fucking lighten up.

[–] Son_of_dad@lemmy.world 55 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Because it's a self interested millionaire with a sketchy past, nothing he does is altruism, it's all PR and self jerking.

[–] Bonesince1997@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

What is this man's sketchy past?

[–] Son_of_dad@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago

All you need to do is Google "Ashton Kutcher sketchy past" and you'll get lots of articles from long before this year, when shit finally hit the fan for him. He's been a clear fake for a long time.

[+] Pratai@lemmy.ca -31 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Nothing ANYONE does is altruism anymore. Because no matter who they are, or what they do- someone will find something to bitch about or be offended by.

[–] adespoton@lemmy.ca 13 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Do you prefer ignorance?

[–] the_q@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago

Oh you poor fool...

[–] kitonthenet@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

you are a mark

[–] Pratai@lemmy.ca -5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Care to elaborate?

[–] taanegl@beehaw.org 6 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The app is being used by police to persecute sex workers and marks, not to find children who are victims of child sex trafficking - because child sex traffickers are not stupid enough to give their "product" to anyone who would instantly put their faces on the internet for anyone to find.

Sex trafficking is a serious issue, but Kutcher nor his company has done their due diligence and are actually helping to persecute sex workers.

I'm not saying that it was intentional, but it does make the whole supposed effort seem like it's more about optics and marketing.

[–] Pratai@lemmy.ca -1 points 2 years ago (3 children)

And this illustrates that I’m a mark how exactly?

See, all I did was point out how everyone is so smugly up their own asses that they feel they can persecute anyone and anything to the point that no one should be bothered to try and do anything even remotely helpful- lest they be publicly shamed for not doing enough, or not doing it as the hive-mind thinks they should….

… and somehow, this makes me a mark?

Fucking hilarious.

[–] b0rlax@beehaw.org 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Defending a famous, rich, rape apologist whose organization is doing more for hurting legal sex work than helping solve illegal sex trafficking is kind of mark behavior.

To me, when a person shows their true color, I automatically need to assume their past actions had ulterior motives.

[–] taanegl@beehaw.org -1 points 2 years ago

I just tried to explain what I thought the commenter was saying. He was being glib, and a little derisive. In any case, you play the same game and I can read your frustrations clearly. You justifiably tried to defend your position, but chose the wrong way of doing it.

I recommend taking a break a few days from comment section, even social media. Just get it out of your head for a while, try to find balance again. Social media can be very provocative and even infuriating at times. But it doesn't help you to fight passive aggressive statements with aggressive statements.

In any case, I hope you take care of yourself and that you are well.

[+] Varyk@sh.itjust.works -73 points 2 years ago (7 children)

Ugh, it's helping kids. Yuck, what an insincere article.

[–] absentthereaper@lemmygrad.ml 48 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Iunno, if someone I knew was involved in trafficking-victim advocacy efforts, then turned around and penned a letter in defense of a rapist who caught 30 to life, I'd suddenly be second-guessing said advocate's bonafides, and double-checking them too. That's too rowdy a lapse of judgment for me personally to let slide; and all the parasocial weirdos suddenly jumping to Kutcher's aid when it's well known he was a 20 year old with a tongue down a 14 year old's throat on primetime television is equally as sketchy.

"‘Just trust Ashton Kutcher’ is terrible public policy.”

[+] RotaryKeyboard@lemmy.ninja -24 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I love how you completely disregard the people who actually work there and the people who actually run Thorn.

[–] absentthereaper@lemmygrad.ml 12 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

I don't address techbro wastemen; and I haven't been given any reason to believe any of them are worth addressing if they're still schlepping facial recognition routines that still routinely misidentify Black and brown faces. I love how you completely disregard the weirdos in the room to peddle your wagon-circling crap.

[–] kitonthenet@kbin.social 31 points 2 years ago (1 children)

they're selling a tech product that they hope to make mandatory by law, it's not some charity lol

[–] fubo@lemmy.world 27 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

Prediction: It'll be helping police arrest consensual sex workers at a higher rate than it helps abused children. In jurisdictions where police are paid off by organized crime, it will help organized pimps (who actually do sex trafficking) thwart competition from the consensual market.

[–] Uranium3006@kbin.social 6 points 2 years ago

Cops are the ones raping kids, judging by recent headlines

[–] Son_of_dad@lemmy.world 27 points 2 years ago (1 children)

You think giving surveillance tools to cops helps kids? You think they don't abuse it? You didn't read the article so clearly not, but these tools are being used by cops to presecute sex workers and innocent people.

[–] remotelove@lemmy.ca 16 points 2 years ago (1 children)

And saving kids is great! The problem is basically the epitome of the phrase, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

On the surface, a false positive identification isn't that bad. Validate the data and move on. Case closed, right? Not exactly.

It probably takes time to filter through false positive alerts and maybe some additional investigations are started. The biggest problem is that society naturally follows "guilty until proven innocent". If someone is caught up in a trafficking case, and they are actually innocent, their career and association with their existing social circles are basically done. That is regardless if they are innocent and that is horrible.

Also there is persistence of data. Once a person gets associated in these datasets, is probably near impossible to have that data removed. This could look really bad if it is found as part of an unrelated investigation and exposed. I won't even go into the invasion of privacy issues.

While it is great to catch actual bad people, possibly destroying the life of another is also bad. I really wish I could say that is a person is actually innocent they have nothing to worry about. That simply doesn't apply here.

[–] deweydecibel@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Yep, and the Patriot act made us all safer. /s

[–] Varyk@sh.itjust.works -1 points 2 years ago

This bandwagon you're scrabbling to catch hold of is actually for media gossip, not so much about corruption of authority, but your hyperbolic and irrelevant comment will be tacked on late though it is, to everybody else's.

[+] Pratai@lemmy.ca -18 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Yeah, we live in a time there people want to be shocked/offended/angered by everything. And if it doesn’t fall into of these reactions- it’s not worth talking about.