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submitted 1 year ago by brihuang95@sopuli.xyz to c/privacy@lemmy.ml

I've been using Brave for the past three or so years but I do know that Linux/privacy enthusiasts tend to swear by Firefox. Wanted to get people's thoughts on this topic to see if I should be making a potential switch. Thanks!

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[-] kevincox@lemmy.ml 31 points 1 year ago

I haven't done an audit of either but here are some points to consider:

  1. Brave is built on top of chromium, so it "by default" exposes lots of new APIs that Google is introducing that make fingerprinting easier if not outright invade your privacy. For example see https://mozilla.github.io/standards-positions/ and look at the "negative" items. Many of them such as Web NFC, Web Bluetooth and WebUSB API are against because they don't have adequate protections against fingerprinting or other privacy or security concerns. Brave seems to do a pretty good job removing or disarming these APIs but they are basically trying to keep their balance on a shaky and antagonistic foundation.
  2. On a similar note Google pushing these APIs work because of the greater market share. Again, derivatives can provide some resistance by disabling these APIs but unless all of them block the same APIs they will still be available widespread. So using a Chromium-based browser harms the entire web over time by allowing Google to have control. Right now Firefox (and derivatives) and Safari are the only browsers that you can use to truly oppose Google's control over the web platform.
[-] astramist@lemmy.sdf.org 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Agreed! Many times I faced the fact that the Chrome developers don't follow the W3C standards, but they require it from Mozilla. Therefore, some functionality will only work in Chrome, but not in Mozilla (it's not their bad!).

[-] XTL@sopuli.xyz 25 points 1 year ago

Brave has tried one scam after another before. I wouldn't trust it for a second for any use.

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[-] binEpilo@discuss.tchncs.de 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Is it more private than brave? Normal Firefox: no Librewolf (Firefox Fork): yes Hardened Firefox: yes

[-] FarLine99@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago

Good answer. Hardened Firefox or LibreWolf with some extensions are awesome options for privacy!

[-] Voxel@feddit.de 1 points 1 year ago

LibreWolf nd Brave are on the same Level if both are hardened.

[-] sizeoftheuniverse@programming.dev 11 points 1 year ago

As hard as it is for me to admit, and based on some tests, Brave had better fingerprinting resistance than Firefox. I don't trust the guys behind Brave, but their product is good.

[-] ruination@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 1 year ago

Iirc isn't it more like Brave is better out of the box, but given sufficient configuration, both are more or less equal?

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[-] heimlichmanure@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

Brave isn't more private than Firefox but depending on the platform that Firefox is on, Firefox might be less secure than Brave.

[-] ruination@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 1 year ago

Still waiting for Firefox Android to be secure enough for me to ditch Brave.

[-] brihuang95@sopuli.xyz 6 points 1 year ago

OOL, what's up with firefox android's app?

[-] ruination@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 1 year ago

IIRC something along the lines of it not having proper site isolation, making it less secure.

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[-] furrowsofar@beehaw.org 10 points 1 year ago

Not the point. Using a chromium browser is a vote for Google domination of the web. Just no.

[-] smeg@feddit.uk 9 points 1 year ago

Short version: Firefox on desktop, something chromium-based on Android. See https://www.privacyguides.org/en/tools/ for the long version!

[-] FarLine99@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago

For security - yes, chromium-based. But for privacy Mull (Fennec) with extension support would be superior!

[-] MangoPenguin@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 year ago

No sync that way though, so I'm not sure how someone would access bookmarks, history, and open tabs that way.

[-] smeg@feddit.uk 2 points 1 year ago

Up to you if you think that feature is worth the security/privacy loss. Personally I've not missed syncing tabs across devices, I do most things on the one device anyway.

[-] MangoPenguin@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 1 year ago

I don't think there would be any privacy loss, Firefox sync is encrypted and all that. I work on multiple devices so I absolutely need it.

[-] smeg@feddit.uk 1 points 1 year ago

I meant the security/privacy loss of using Chromium on desktop or Firefox on Android

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[-] Engywuck@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

By default? I think so.

https://privacytests.org/

(these test are done with browsers at their defaults). Librewolf is on par with Brave, but I vehemently hate its interface and refuse to unfuck it wasting my time on CSS.

I'm on Brave as well since 2021, after almost 20 years of being an avid FF user and supporter. I don't like how FF is evolving and what Mozilla is doing and I don't buy the "Chromium domination" argument. If the sole reason to use FF is that "it is not Chromium", well, the developers aren't doing a great job.

However, let's be real: privacy on a browser matters until you go to whatever website that track you on the server side (Google/Facebook/Youtube/Whatever), or when you write an email from from you Gmail account, or when you buy stuff on Amazon... And so on. Just use the browser that works best for you and don't be paranoid.

[-] smeg@feddit.uk 8 points 1 year ago

Don't forget that https://privacytests.org/ is run by a Brave employee!

[-] Voxel@feddit.de 3 points 1 year ago

That hasn't do anything with the results. You can test everything yourself. Techlore also made a interview with him.

[-] smeg@feddit.uk 1 points 1 year ago

As I said in another comment, if you work for Brave you're probably going to write tests that play to Brave's strengths

[-] Voxel@feddit.de 2 points 1 year ago

There is enough evidwnce that this is wrong. I would recommend to watch Techlores Interview too.

[-] smeg@feddit.uk 1 points 1 year ago

Are you telling me that you don't think a Brave employee would write tests based on the areas of expertise they have, that they may well already have implemented fixes for? Or, on a more sinister level, do you think Brave would allow their employee to have a web page up that made their browser look bad?

I'm not trying to be agro here, I'm just pointing out that you can't really consider this an unbiased source even if you are happy with all the tests!

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[-] aba11@birdon.social 4 points 1 year ago

@Engywuck do you mind expanding on this? Genuinely curious: “I don’t like how FF is evolving and what Mozilla is doing”

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[-] Voxel@feddit.de 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Brave is more secure, in terms of safety, because it's base on chromium and has unique Privacy Features. If you won't use Brave, LibreWolf or hardened Firefox is ur best choice.

[-] ranok@sopuli.xyz 9 points 1 year ago

While Chromium itself is a very solid platform, and correspondingly Chrome is a hard exploitation target, it's quite easy to screw up a fork of it. Comodo Secure Browser was a chromium fork that was fixed to an old version of the renderer with known security issues and was built to disable the sandbox. It also added libraries that were compiled without ASLR that worsened security for every application that loaded them.

Chrome has an enormous security team behind it in addition to P0, so bounties on Chrome exploits are around $500k. FF bounties are a fifth of that, which is probably a portion of less security, and a portion of lower target market. Brave could be doing terrible things that without an audit would be unknown. Web3 code is pretty terrible on the whole, so adding that to a secure base may not be great...

[-] Rooki@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago

Brave is so unsecure because it uses chromium. The only unique thing i saw on brave was the crypto miner included. Chrome can easily just change terms so that brave looses his licence for chromium. Firefox is more secure in the way it is more secure, because they are not focused on stealing your data and there is librewolf yeah that one is open source and is the most secure of those 3

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[-] understandable@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago

Brave is more secure in terms of security. Security and safety are two entirely different attributes from a technical pov. And privacy and security are also not the same, though privacy is greatly impacted without security as you implied.

Firefox is more private than Brave but less secure. Neither is necessarily safer than the other, it depends on how much either app tends to misbehave within the constraints of your own use case. Since the use cases are different (privacy vs. security), it's harder to compare safety on an even playing field.

[-] Voxel@feddit.de 1 points 1 year ago

I would like to see evidence for your claim that Firefox is more private.

[-] understandable@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago

Exhibit A: The Tor Browser, which focuses on maximizing privacy, is based on Firefox rather than Chromium. They upstream a lot of their major stuff to regular Firefox.

Exhibit B: Firefox therefore has privacy features that Chromium-based browsers just do not have, like first-party isolation or letterboxing for example.

Brave's preconfiguration is a lot more private than Firefox out of the box, but hardened* Firefox is more private than Brave even with extra work put in.

*: Not just configuration (Arkenfox) but also patches. Like Librewolf (better) or Mullvad Browser (even better) or straight up Tor Browser (best).

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this post was submitted on 06 Jul 2023
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