this post was submitted on 27 Sep 2023
1504 points (96.0% liked)

linuxmemes

21282 readers
701 users here now

Hint: :q!


Sister communities:


Community rules (click to expand)

1. Follow the site-wide rules

2. Be civil
  • Understand the difference between a joke and an insult.
  • Do not harrass or attack members of the community for any reason.
  • Leave remarks of "peasantry" to the PCMR community. If you dislike an OS/service/application, attack the thing you dislike, not the individuals who use it. Some people may not have a choice.
  • Bigotry will not be tolerated.
  • These rules are somewhat loosened when the subject is a public figure. Still, do not attack their person or incite harrassment.
  • 3. Post Linux-related content
  • Including Unix and BSD.
  • Non-Linux content is acceptable as long as it makes a reference to Linux. For example, the poorly made mockery of sudo in Windows.
  • No porn. Even if you watch it on a Linux machine.
  • 4. No recent reposts
  • Everybody uses Arch btw, can't quit Vim, and wants to interject for a moment. You can stop now.
  •  

    Please report posts and comments that break these rules!


    Important: never execute code or follow advice that you don't understand or can't verify, especially here. The word of the day is credibility. This is a meme community -- even the most helpful comments might just be shitposts that can damage your system. Be aware, be smart, don't fork-bomb your computer.

    founded 2 years ago
    MODERATORS
     
    top 50 comments
    sorted by: hot top controversial new old
    [–] SaintNewts@sh.itjust.works 165 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    I really hate that Windows does this. Which is why when I decide to switch a machine to Linux it's the only OS allowed to boot to bare metal. Windows can go in a VM and suck it.

    [–] transientpunk@sh.itjust.works 74 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Not sure why, but your comment made me think about the first machine I switched to Linux. It was a laptop who's fan eventually had a bad bearing and needed to be replaced. Luckily it was still under warranty, so I sent the laptop in to get the fan replaced, and received my laptop back with Windows installed on it... I was so livid.

    [–] BeMoreCareful 51 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Never send them the drive.

    They are probably required to boot to the desktop for qa

    [–] transientpunk@sh.itjust.works 33 points 1 year ago (1 children)

    Yup, exactly what they said. But I didn't know any better at the time. These days I would just fix that myself rather than send it to them

    [–] BeMoreCareful 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

    Yeah, it's a once in a lifetime thing lol, but it's better to put that out on the off chance someone reading it may have to send one in.

    I hate to say it, but unless they're corporate machines or you put it together yourself, computers are basically disposable these days.

    load more comments (1 replies)
    load more comments (5 replies)
    load more comments (2 replies)
    [–] AbsolutelyNotCats 16 points 1 year ago

    That's the way to go

    load more comments (5 replies)
    [–] Blaster_M@lemmy.world 111 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (14 children)

    What's actually happening here is Windows is setting its bootloader first in your EFI when it gets updated. Linux isn't gone, you just have to press the "boot another drive" button and boot to it, or go into your EFI setup and switch the bootloader back to the Linux one.

    Linuxes do the same thing when updating their bootloader.

    Note for the Ackshually crowd: If you're still booting MBR (which comes with the partition eating risk on dual boots) you have a system that is older than Windows 8 - 11+ years old, so eating the MBR is something you'll have to deal with unconventionally, as all modern systems, OS, and hardware expect you to be using EFI.

    [–] Barbarian@sh.itjust.works 42 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

    Grub does not do the same thing unless something has gone wrong. It detects windows and offers you the choice on boot as to which OS to start.

    [–] Blaster_M@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Grub is still the first bootloader in that case. You would not notice if it was putting itself first after an update unless you have Windows booting first.

    You might notice if you are booting between multiple linuxes, all with their own version of grub.

    load more comments (3 replies)
    [–] spaghettiwestern@sh.itjust.works 40 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

    Not the case. What's happening here is Windows is removing the ext4 partition completely, expanding the ntfs partition and writing to all of it.

    Windows update did that to my <1 year old laptop. I figured it had just wiped out grub, but when it was booted from a live-usb there was no ext4 partition there at all. This has been reported many times.

    Microsoft should be sued for this shit. Legal protection from destroying people's data that is not part of Windows or in a Windows partition, whether deliberately or by negligence, is not something that can be legitimately covered by a license agreement.

    [–] nickwitha_k@lemmy.sdf.org 12 points 1 year ago

    Second that. I can't think of a way that that is not deliberate. The "cover" would be that it is ensuring that the full device is used so that the end user doesn't have to worry about it. In reality, there's no legitimate reason for an update to touch the partition table. Way to easy to brick the system.

    [–] d3Xt3r@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

    In my experience (W11 + Fedora on UEFI Thinkpad), I've seen it actually get rid of the Fedora entry from the UEFI boot list. Reinstalling GRUB from chroot didn't fix it, so I used EasyUEFI and manually added the Fedora EFI file to the boot list and that worked.

    So it wasn't simply changing the boot order, it actually nuked Fedora from the UEFI boot list.

    load more comments (2 replies)
    [–] Anticorp@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 year ago

    It sometimes destroys the Linux boot sector too. But it's simple enough to chroot with a live usb and repair it. I don't even have both OS as an option. Mine boots straight into Linux unless I interrupt it and use the boot another drive option. Linux and Windows have their own separate boot sectors, but Windows will fubar the Linux sector randomly.

    load more comments (10 replies)
    [–] NGC2346@sh.itjust.works 53 points 1 year ago (1 children)

    Dual booting < having two separate SSD's

    [–] mojo@lemm.ee 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    They still need to share an EFI partition

    [–] thedeadwalking4242@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Not really if you have a bootloader like refind it will look for other EFIs and list them. Makes for a really clean set up

    load more comments (2 replies)
    [–] MouseWithBeer@iusearchlinux.fyi 11 points 1 year ago

    If you don't want to bother with the bootloader like the other comment mentioned you can also just use the boot menu from the motherboard instead. You gotta mash f11 (or whatever it is on your motherboard) on boot when you want to go into Windows, but if you only need it every once in a while it is good enough.

    [–] VinesNFluff@pawb.social 47 points 1 year ago (15 children)

    Never happened to me. Like ever. And I've been on Linux (with occasional dual-booting whenever I'm in a position where I need windows--) for like 15 years now?

    To be honest a lot of stuff people talk about seems to not happen to me and I think I might be exceedingly lucky or smth.

    [–] menemen@lemmy.world 23 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

    My guess: the windows update fucked up Grub. Happened to me once or twice in 20 years of dual booting. It is also easily recoverable.

    load more comments (1 replies)
    [–] MTK@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    It tends to happen if you are not using the windows bootloader (GRUB for example) but if you use the windows bootloader it should be fine

    [–] themusicman@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago

    Oh it just changes the bootloader? That's not a big deal. Easy to fix from any live usb.

    Also, for any distro hoppers out there... Do yourself a favour and put Ventoy on a USB. You can thank me later

    load more comments (8 replies)
    load more comments (13 replies)
    [–] mellejwz@lemmy.world 31 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Windows only updates the bootloader, it doesn't touch Linux partitions. After an update you just have to fix the bootloader again which isn't too hard if you know how it works.

    [–] pjhenry1216@kbin.social 19 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I'd argue one shouldn't even be messing with dual booting if they don't understand much about the bootloader.

    [–] filcuk@lemmy.zip 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

    My counterpoint would be how does one best learn about anything if not by messing with it

    load more comments (1 replies)
    load more comments (1 replies)
    load more comments (2 replies)
    [–] user224@lemmy.sdf.org 28 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

    In my case it wasn't the boot entry being removed. It actually ate the partition. When installing Linux Mint, I resized the Windows partition in Linux. Then I noticed that Windows absolutely didn't recognize that change, and thought its partition is still as big as it used to. Then on a restart it hit me with the "Repairing drive C:" which killed the Linux partition leaving just something corrupted.
    "Repairing"

    [–] Martineski@lemmy.dbzer0.com 24 points 1 year ago (1 children)

    Windows: "Let me repair Linux for you"

    load more comments (1 replies)
    load more comments (2 replies)
    [–] venia_sil@fedia.io 27 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Protip:

    Just don't have a live Windows partition.

    load more comments (2 replies)
    [–] Reygle@lemmy.world 26 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    If you still "dual boot", be advised that Windows is a piece of shit and will almost always cause this with a "build" update. Highly, highly recommend having Linux and Windows (shame on you) on separate physical drives.

    load more comments (9 replies)
    [–] robert@lemm.ee 20 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Just protect bios/uefi with password and windows won't be able to modify any other EFI entry. It worked when i've dual-booted, it should still work.

    load more comments (3 replies)
    [–] Matriks404@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (16 children)

    What about stop making bullshit posts? Windows have never did that to me, and there's no reason why would it touch any partition aside from its own and (if it exists) the Windows boot one.

    That said, It MIGHT replace MBR boot record but I don't know if that's very likely these days. I remember upgrading from Windows 8 to 10 and Windows left my MBR alone, and I was able to boot to GRUB just fine.

    [–] Ricaz@lemmy.ml 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    If you install Linux first and then Windows on the same drive, it will fuck up your bootloader.

    You can easily make Grub boot Windows, so just overwrite whatever fuckup Windows made, or install Windows first.

    It won't happen with a simple update, though, that's for sure. Maybe if you're upgrading Windows to a new major release.

    load more comments (15 replies)
    [–] Transcriptionist@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

    Image Transcription:

    White text on a black background reading

    'Me: *Dual booting windows and linux.

    'Windows: *Updates itself.

    'Me: Where is the linux partition?

    'Windows:'

    Below the text is the Daenerys Targaryen Squint meme showing Daenerys Targaryen from Game of Thrones squint smiling. Over the image is the text '"dunno!"'

    [I am a human, if I’ve made a mistake please let me know. Please consider providing alt-text for ease of use. Thank you. 💜 We have a community! If you wish for us to transcribe something, want to help improve ease of use here on Lemmy, or just want to hang out with us, join us at !lemmy_scribes@lemmy.world!]

    [–] knorke3@lemm.ee 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

    to be fair, it actually doesn't know - windows doesn't do ext4...

    [–] x0chi@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago

    But it knows there's a partition there and it's easy to know it's a Linux partition type. Microsoft just prefer to say it doesn't know the partition type and simply say it ignores it. You don't need to have support for a file system in order to check it's partition type. It's just ms bs

    [–] Cihta@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    Whoa.. this really happens? If so that's disgusting and doesn't seem legal. I was about to setup a dual boot for my laptop which has proprietary windows only software I need for work but now I guess i need to research a bit.

    [–] SirQuackTheDuck@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Whoa.. this really happens?

    No, the only thing that windows might do, is reset the bootloader so it skips grub. If you're using UEFI (which you should), you can easily restore it from your bios.

    I've only seen it happen on big updates, not the smaller ones.

    [–] Barack_Embalmer@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

    As an Ubuntu + Win10 dual booter I had a couple of instances where Windows update destroyed things so irreparably that live Ubuntu boot-repair failed to work, and hours of back-and-forthing error messages to Ubuntu IRC and discord support channels yielded nothing. And I'm too stupid to know any other way of fixing it, so I was SOL. Your milage may vary.

    load more comments (2 replies)
    [–] okamiueru@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

    I unplug physicals disks when installing windows. Learned the hard way when windows placed the boot partition on a device it could not detect the filsystem of. It destroyed my RAID disks (a little but my fault, because I messed up the recovery).

    This is what Windows installer saw (going by memory, this was 8 years ago)

    • SSD 500 GB (either it recognised ext4 file system, or this one was unknown)
    • SSD 500 GB (Where I specified to install windows)
    • 4 x HDD 8TB (unknown disks, unknown file system, Windows unaware that this was a RAID-5 software dm-raid)

    What did it to? It created a new partition table and wrote data to a new boot partition it made on one of the 8TB disks, no questions asked.

    So, to the people who answered you that windows installer cannot do this. Maybe they fixed it. But it certainly could, and it cetianly did. I remember very carefully going through the installer because I was concerned about this happening. I thought about unplugging them, but was lazy. Because "it would be insane for windows to write on a disk it cannot identify the file system of".

    Lessons learned:

    • If you plan to install windows on a disk along side Linux, install windows first, if you can. Safest bet is still to:
    • If you cannot, unplug all other disks other than the one windows is intended to be on.

    Edit: I found post on this way back when, but leaving what I wrote as is.

    https://superuser.com/questions/758854/mdadm-win7-install-created-a-boot-partition-on-one-of-my-raid6-drives-how-to-r#1243636

    I had remembered some details wrong. I had unplugged the Linux SSD, and it wad raid 6 not 5, and it was 2TB disks.

    load more comments (2 replies)
    load more comments (9 replies)
    [–] cypher_greyhat@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

    For this reason, I put Linux on an NVMe drive and Windows on an old SSD. Seems to prevent it.

    load more comments (1 replies)
    [–] JareeZy@feddit.de 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    What? Windows kills other partitions during update?

    load more comments (1 replies)
    [–] merthyr1831@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

    Depends on the Distro as some use different boot configs but I had it happen with Pop!OS and did the most logical thing which was wipe my windows partition 🤜🤛

    load more comments (1 replies)
    load more comments
    view more: next ›