this post was submitted on 01 Jan 2025
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[–] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 week ago

Where God is humanist principle, and God is a humanist, then circularly, principle exists without micromanaging intervention in perpetuity.

The old testament is extremely problematic. Israelite hasbara coup. Polytheistic relgion at the time was Canaanite. The descendants of Noah's grandson. El was main god, that Israel is named after, and all other god's were his offspring. Greek rule over the region, had Greeks say that all of the major Canaanite gods were the same as the Greek gods, with El as Zeus. Yahweh was the tribal god of Israelites. But it is basically very easy for any priest to invent a new god, based on narrower factional/fertility needs to collect revenue for rewarding the priest to champion your tribe/goals contrary to humanism.

The problems with old testament start with 10 commandments

There is no god before me (Yahweh), is a coup over El.

"Though shalt not covet/idolatrize" was an insurection cry over Canaanites where Yahweh orders the Israelites to destroy all idols of Canaanites instead of valuing their silver/gold content. El/God had no desire to repress worship, and their priests accepted offerings and sacrifices, so why not idolatry.

"Honour thy father/parents" codifies law at the time that gave parents the right to have the state execute their children for "dishonour".

Just as all Churches today have as mission to maximize their power through alliance with state/authority/hierarchy, so have all religion through time. A cult is simply a religion without state approval. God exists without church corruption. Prayer has no measurable effect, but Abrahamic religions being rooted in a lie could be one explanation. Still, that evil exists, doesn't imply that humanism/principle doesn't exist, just that you individually have the power for evil, and tyranny/autocracy has power because you are deluded to allow/tolerate it, and evil happens from the greed and desperation it fosters. Evil exists because we are too collectively stupid and gullible to organize ourselves around evil.

https://www.naturalfinance.net/2022/11/the-invention-of-truth.html

[–] gmtom@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago (18 children)

Well the theological explanation is that what we consider evil or suffering is just a necessary function of God's world.

Would a world truly without any sort of hardship or strife be worth living in?

[–] dragonfucker@lemmy.nz 4 points 1 week ago

Voltaire has a great novella called Candide about a philosopher who thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. It's hilarious.

[–] lightnsfw@reddthat.com 4 points 1 week ago

Would a world truly without any sort of hardship or strife be worth living in?

Of course. You can challenge yourself without hardship. It would just be on your own terms instead of whatever bullshit other people or circumstance is constantly throwing at us.

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[–] TwoFacedJanus1968@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

If this were multiple choice, then I would go with #2.

[–] mhague@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

Assuming Christianity and that the lore was real there's more fundamental questions.

Can you perceive the universe accurately and fully? If good and evil exist, are you accurately observing them?

If this world is like an illusion and eternity will be in heaven or hell, what does it mean to do good or evil here on earth? You commit evil and it will propel you towards hell, the"real", while the people who suffer from your evil fare better here in the "illusion." It's like evil is when someone kills their own soul, and has less to do with the literal consequences here in this universe.

Related the the first question, what about the fact that their god is literally defined as good and is essentially an Eldritch being that exists within the very unfolding of history itself? Stepping into this lore and trying to trap this thing with a simple, elegant rhetorical cage is like... trying to catch Cthulhu with a cage.

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