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submitted 1 year ago by sweetviolentblush@sh.itjust.works to c/196@lemmy.blahaj.zone

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[-] octoperson@sh.itjust.works 34 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Terf mindset is fascinating. It's like they need their conceptual models to literally be objective reality. Accepting even a glimmer of uncertainty into the perfect essential binary law of nature would just implode their whole world, and they know it. So nothing is off the table. The entire basis of reality is at stake and they'll sacrifice you, me and themselves to protect it.

[-] Lianodel@ttrpg.network 8 points 1 year ago

For real, it's scary how quickly transphobia can get a grip on someone, to the point it becomes a singular focus, and something people are willing to destroy their own lives for.

Specifically, I'm thinking of Graham Linehan. Other famous and successful people have let transphobia take over their lives and tarnish their reputations, but that dude lost his reputation, can't get work anymore, even destroyed his own marriage... but can't stop. I think he subconsciously realizes that, if he's wrong about this, he lost everything for nothing, so he can't ever even entertain the idea.

[-] emergencyfood@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 year ago

Not just TERFs, all cults are like that.

[-] octoperson@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 year ago

Oh indeed, but I think there is something peculiar to terfs that you don't see that much elsewhere. They're not just fervently believing some crazy shit. They're taking a cultural practice that's already widespread outside their movement, and fervently believing that it's some ironclad law of the universe. That's why they believe the science is on their side, and why they don't even need to check. And why they think that everyone, even their opponents, secretly agrees with them.

I don't know that they're more dangerous or more far gone than other flavours of crazy. But they're certainly.. well, they're certainly something.

[-] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 26 points 1 year ago

[-] Lianodel@ttrpg.network 12 points 1 year ago

It's amazing how quickly they'll pivot from "I have science on my side" to "The science is wrong."

They don't form opinions based on evidence, they judge evidence based on their opinions.

[-] Selmafudd@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

Wtf is a terf??

[-] dojan@lemmy.world 38 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

In short, someone who hates trans people.

They claim to be feminist while at the same time having a really reductionist and misogynistic view on what constitutes a woman. Like “the producer of the large gametes.”

Edit: the term TERF is an abbreviation meaning “Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminist”. They usually call themselves “Gender Critical” or GC, though, and consider TERF to be a slur.

There’s also the significantly less mature “Feminist-Appropriating Reactionary Transphobe” which really fits, but obviously doesn’t contribute much to the discussion.

[-] Ertebolle@kbin.social 34 points 1 year ago

obviously doesn’t contribute much to the discussion.

On the contrary, calling J. K. Rowling a malevolent rich old F.A.R.T. elevates the discussion greatly.

[-] dojan@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago

It is definitely very cathartic.

Caelan Conrad has a video on the topic because they’ve gotten called out for acquiescing and using the term GC.

They mean that calling them TERF gives them an opening to shift the topic and start acting as victims, something they’re very glad to do.

It also means that when we talk about TERFs allying with neo-nazis and facists, we’re tying that to the phrase TERF, meaning there will be no opposing viewpoint when you search for Gender Critical.

In essence, they mean that by showing TERFs the ironic courtesy of respecting their pronouns, we remove their ability to control/derail the conversation, and lets us relate all the horrible things they do and say with their preferred label.

[-] Ertebolle@kbin.social 10 points 1 year ago

Interesting.

My personal take is that - as with so many other conservative groups - they're going to act like victims regardless of what we call them, and referring to them politely has the effect of legitimizing their position. I suppose to a naive bystander it might make it seem like two groups of crazy people yelling at each other, but I'd still take that over a polite talk show roundtable any day.

[-] dojan@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

I do get where you're coming from, I used to have the same opinion really, but ultimately that changed when I gave it some thought. When arguing with TERFs I don't really expect to convert them, I care more about people that aren't too involved in the discussion to know just how heinous these people are.

Calling them TERFs to their faces will just turn whatever conversation you have to be about them and how oppressed they are, and I honestly don't give a rat's arse about them, and I don't want to give them the ammunition to shoot us with.

I want the term Gender Critical to reflect how toxic these people are. When people Google "gender critical" I want the first page to talk about how misogynist they are. I want headlines that mention how they support the psychological torture of children. I want it to mention how they work with neo nazis, proud boys, and facists to get their message across. I want front and center focus on how many people are hurt and die because of their bigotry.

Because it isn't about them. It's about the people they hurt. It's about the people they campaign for to not receive healthcare and safety. It's about the people that kill themselves because society has denied them the right to live and they don't see any other out. It's about all the LGBTQ+ children that live in silence, and grow to fear and loathe who they are because of the hateful adults their lives.

Those are the people that matter. The TERFs can take a long walk off a short pier for all I care.

[-] Ertebolle@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I get that, I just think 'gender critical' doesn't do the job; it's bland and not catchy, and the 'critical' overlaps with 'critical race theory' which a lot of people have been brainwashed to disagree with.

Whatever mileage they may get out of claiming oppression, TERF is memorable, fun to say, rhymes with a bunch of other ridiculous things like Nerf and Smurf, and is instantly Google-able. And to a typical observer, a bunch of old rich straight cis white ladies complaining that they're being oppressed is very hard to believe. (and of course the Google-ability also means that when somebody insists they're not a TERF you can ask them to name which specific points of TERFiness they disagree with)

It's a suitable moniker for a crazy fringe movement, and a powerful piece of ammunition against them in and of itself.

[-] dojan@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

I don't disagree with you.

Though I think "Gender Critical" is a better moniker than TERF honestly - it always baffled me that they think "Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminist" is a slur, because it gives them too much credit in my opinion. You can't be a feminist if you also say shit like "being a woman isn't about lived experiences" and "women are the producers of the large gametes." They're essentially saying "trans women aren't women because cummies" which is just utterly ridiculous and calling them feminists give them way too much credit.

Ultimately I think FART is the absolutely most fitting moniker because it describes them perfectly, it just doesn't serve to legitimise our standpoint at all.

[-] PipedLinkBot@feddit.rocks 2 points 1 year ago

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[-] Chthonic@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TERF

[-] DigitalTraveler42@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago

There's probably so much overlap on the venn diagram

[-] octoperson@sh.itjust.works 12 points 1 year ago

Dunno actually. Flat earthers tend to be end is nigh religious types, and I don't see them needing to dress up transphobia with feminist terminology

[-] sweetviolentblush@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It's more that no matter how much science you throw at them, both TERFS and flat earthers will do their hardest to ignore it, screaming "la la la" with their fingers in their ears til the world ends. And both groups are great examples of feelings being more important than facts

[-] octoperson@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago

Oh yeah, it's an apt comparison. I just don't think they're the literal same people.

I interpreted the Venn diagram comment to be about the set of flat earthers, and the set of terfs. But if it was about the traits of flat earthers, and the traits of terfs, then yeah, what you said.