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[-] V0ldek@awful.systems 11 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago)

The thing with IVF is that it's already incredibly weirdly eugenicist.

Like, read some of the parameters they'd screen you for if you wanted to donate sperm. You get bonus points for having a PhD? I'm sorry? You're looking for a better-educated sperm?

And when you apply for IVF and choose a donor you get their education and job. "I want my cum to be a pilot!" The fuck.

[-] pdxfed@lemmy.world 2 points 16 hours ago

There's one born every minute, this is a great way to have them self-select for financial benefit.

[-] ShakingMyHead@awful.systems 17 points 1 day ago

"Given these three steps, what's the logical fourth one?"
"..."
"God this embryo is an idiot."

[-] swlabr@awful.systems 7 points 1 day ago

Doesn’t even know the basic strats for these pattern questions, SMH, Do You Even IQ Test? (trying to start DYEIQT)

[-] dgerard@awful.systems 7 points 1 day ago

training your sperm to pass raven's progressive matrices

[-] bitofhope@awful.systems 6 points 1 day ago

At least corvids are smart. Better that than some birdbrain's progressive matrices.

[-] HelixDab2@lemm.ee 15 points 1 day ago

IQ is so incredibly complicated, and we really don't know how it works, and what genes allow for the possibility of high IQ. So what are they even screening for? If they're just looking at broad trends in population IQ compared to genetics, then what they're actually seeing are environmental factors, which play an immense role in whether or not potential is ever reached.

[-] Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world 2 points 11 hours ago

There are likely many hundreds or more of contributing alleles according to one paper I read in uni. How individual differences manifest genetically is stultifyingly complex. We still don't even have a unifying theory of what intelligence is, or even consciousness - much less "how make smarterer". It's before early days, we're still banging rocks together. Scientists know approximately dick about intelligence.

[-] HelixDab2@lemm.ee 2 points 11 hours ago

That's the really crazy thing, innit? We don't even know what being conscious entails! But we've got over one hundred years of studying ("studying") psychology while just handwaving the underlying mechanisms. We have no idea how all the genes interact, much less how environment directly influences all of that, but we're still trying to do complex eugenics that's lightyears past our current understanding.

Maybe we get to Gattaca someday, but it's not going to be soon.

[-] Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world 2 points 11 hours ago

But on the plus side, the people capable of paying for this bullshit are going to have significantly higher chance of proper nutrition for their kids, access to good education, and ability to avoid environmental toxins, so they just have to compare their "handpicked sperm" to the population as a whole and they'll show great results.

Yeah this is an obvious scam lol.

(It's not about IQ specifically, but to anyone interested in how many different environment factors play a role in human behavior/outcomes, Behave by Robert Sapolsky is an excellent overview of research in a broad variety of fields. It's definitely not a light read, but it doesn't assume too much prior knowledge, and is one of my favorite books on what makes us tick.)

@HelixDab2 @sue_me_please I'd go a step further and say it doesn't work. It's an inherently flawed concept that you can reduce human thought, skill, ability, and behaviour to a number and then rank people by it. The legacy of general intelligence itself is that of people assuming it exists and seeking to justify their assumptions.

[-] Boomkop3@reddthat.com 39 points 1 day ago

oh great, commercial eugenics

[-] SplashJackson@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 day ago

We knew it was bound to happen sometime with capitalism

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[-] Etterra@lemmy.world 27 points 1 day ago

That's not how IQ works you idiots.

Wait. Who's the idiots? The ones selling the service, the ones falling for the service, or the embryos that they decide to have low IQ?

I'd say the first two, and if the parents are responsible for the education of the kid, all three.

[-] Soyweiser@awful.systems 9 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Re one, what is worse? People selling anti wifi amulets that they know don't work? Or people who sell them while not understanding (nor believing) that they dont work? (More likely it doesnt matter as it remains a scam. Ow god, im getting close to doing actual ethical thinking here).

[-] Etterra@lemmy.world 4 points 11 hours ago

Reminds me of the Wi-Fi blocking Faraday cages to "protect" modems a few years ago. Those at least did exactly what was promised lol

[-] Soyweiser@awful.systems 1 points 9 hours ago

Finally a tool to make my lan wifi very local.

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[-] Cracks_InTheWalls@sh.itjust.works 9 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Gross, but I'm not shocked. IVF and prenatal genetics screening is big business, it was really only a matter of time until someone tried pulling this. As much as it shouldn't be the case, the 'line must go up' edict holds in the medical business too. I know some large lab services companies that are likely watching groups like this with great interest (but letting them take the risks first, which is smart because this is a con).

My hope is that someone squashes this and we keep screening limited to risks for severe developmental disorders (which, even still, is at least a little ethically problematic) and conditions that lower the probability of the pregnancy coming to term. But we'll see - there's gold in dem der embryos.

[-] ikidd@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

Can we do this after they're born, grow up, and acquire a drivers license?

[-] antifuchs@awful.systems 15 points 1 day ago

I would definitely hate to be burdened with an IQ. Such a terrible thing to be born with

[-] Maeve@kbin.earth 6 points 1 day ago

Only if burdened with emotional intermittence, as well.

[-] bitofhope@awful.systems 12 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

If I only have about fifty embryos, can I pay $50k to have them scanned now and have another 50 embryo scans left on my account or do I have to have all of them on hand immediately?

[-] luciole@beehaw.org 19 points 1 day ago

I didn't understand how the hell the "pro-life" crowd would cheer for IVF since it entails destroying plenty of embryos. Now I understand: it's the opportunity for some good old fashioned eugenics.

[-] gerikson@awful.systems 22 points 1 day ago

They’re not cheering. Evangelical anti-abortion activists have long targeted IVF and it’s been practically banned in at least one US state.

[-] luciole@beehaw.org 5 points 1 day ago

Some days ago Trump came out saying he loves IVF and he's the "father of IVF" so I assumed the evangelicals are at least OK with it, considering how the Republican are extremely close with them.

[-] gerikson@awful.systems 2 points 12 hours ago

Trump has absolutely no principles or beliefs other than those that profit him.

[-] rook@awful.systems 8 points 1 day ago

He will say what he thinks needs to be said, and the forced-birthers understand this. They haven’t defeated abortion yet and aren’t going to split their efforts, but they will continue to put pressure on ivf in the meantime. Remember, they weren’t always anti-abortion, and didn’t switch to it overnight! Their current position that life begins at conception necessarily conflicts with current ivf practises, and they’ll say they don’t disapprove of ivf in principle, and they might even have a friend who’s getting ivf, but talk is cheap and they’ll absolutely oppose any legislation that tries to guarantee access to it. Which is precisely what is happening.

[-] swlabr@awful.systems 16 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Reminds me of how marriage advice has its roots in white supremacy. (CW: a lot. self harm, SA, abuse)

[-] WhyDoYouPersist@lemmy.world 12 points 1 day ago

GATTICA! GATTICA! GATTICA!

[-] o7___o7@awful.systems 7 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Scott Alexander pokes his head up out of the astroturf and whispers, "It's showtime."

GATTACATS would be the most cursed musical possible and every day I give thanks that we live in a world where it doesn't exist.

[-] ICastFist@programming.dev 4 points 1 day ago

Just you wait, someone in Hollywood might see your post and get ideas

[-] barsquid@lemmy.world 10 points 1 day ago

Won't one crucial difference be that Gattaca's genetic selection actually worked? This will be a techbro "move fast and break things" con job.

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this post was submitted on 21 Oct 2024
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