These fucking Baltic countries won't stop until they get us into a war with Russia. Congrats to the libs for destroying the Soviet Union, such prosperity that the world is experiencing right now.
USSR destroyed itself , liberal ideas crept into CPSU long time back and they didn't have nationalism like in China and Russia . Middle class hated everything in USSR.
well, it was being corrupted from within, but Amerika certainly helped destroy it at the end using Yeltsin, and I would be extremely surprised if they didn't have a few compromised CPSU members
The enemy will always try to bring you down , main thing is not to let others influence you, Leaders of USSR and most middle class people were naive. Even now just look at NFKRZ and Kasparov vomiting Putler propaganda day in and day out for placating these western libs. I remember (from what I read ) our Communist party members met Minister Suslov in 1980s and still he was blaming Stalin for every misery in 1980s.
But the guy did all the right things in Stalin's years damm...
Suslov 👀
Its been confirmed long ago that many CPSU members met with CIA agents.
The USSR was under attack from the moment it was born.
I don't think the Baltniks will be happy until the entire Global South is dead.
NATO is really pushing the line as much as they can.
This winter is going to be an absolutely terrifying way to end 2023
and nobody in the west is paying attention to this except few "tankies" here and there.
That's because they literally think it's a sportsball game and you root for teams based on your hormonal resonance with their public image.
And, like they do with sportsball games, the harder they cheer on "their team" the more likely they are to win.
This winter is going to be an absolutely terrifying way to end the world.
I caution being so pessimistic. I understand your reasoning, but Russia isn't stupid, and is really good at playing the long game.
I have some thoughts, some scepticism, some questions. First, some quotes from the article:
Ukraine has not claimed responsibility for the strikes.
…the Estonian government has firmly denied the claims.
…the closest distance between the Russian city and Ukraine is about 310 miles. This would have required the drone to fly through the airspace of Belarus. Avoiding Belarusian airspace could extend the journey to 700 miles or 435 miles, depending on the route.
However, Ukrainian drones are reportedly able to fly to distances up to and beyond this.
…reports suggested Ukrainian "Beaver" drones could have been behind attacks on Moscow, which are believed to have a range in excess of 620 miles.
In June, a spokesperson for Ukrainian state arms producer Ukroboronprom also posted on Facebook that it had successfully tested a drone with a range of 1,000 kilometers (620 miles).
Russia blamed Ukraine for other drone attacks overnight, which caused authorities to close the airspace over the Moscow and neighboring Tula oblasts.
I wouldn't be so sure that Estonia launched these attacks. I wouldn't be surprised to find that Ukraine (with US support) 'secretly' launched the drones from Estonia. Although it would apparently be possible to launch those drones from Ukraine.
It's in some Ukrainians' interest to find a way to get NATO more deeply involved before the hints that NATO is losing interest become more explicit, vocal, and practical. But I can't see how it would be in NATO's interest to let Estonia get involved like this because it would drag the whole of NATO into it. If NATO gets directly involved, the whole of NATO is fair game. Are we to believe that:
One possibility is that someone in Ukraine 'persuaded' someone in Estonia to make this happen or allow it to happen. Considering how corrupt all capitalists are, this is not unimaginable.
I wouldn't be surprised to learn that whoever did this was behind blowing up Nordstream II.
Whether Estonia launches the drones itself or whether Ukraine and NATO launch drones from Estonia it makes no difference to Estonia's culpability since Estonia is responsible for whatever happens on their territory. We still have the same problem. Wherever attacks are launched from, Russia has every right to strike back at, and if they do that NATO's bluff will be called. The majority of its members will say they have no obligation to defend a country that provoked retaliation by attacking first. The Polish and the other Baltic chihuahuas will be the only ones who would be dumb enough to try something in the same kind of erroneous belief which Ukraine had, that big daddy USA would come to bail them out. But they missed the memo about what happened to all of the US's other so-called allies throughout history, from South Vietnam to their Afghan puppets and even the Kurds. Oh sure the US would send "aid" in the same way they have for Ukraine because that makes their military industrial complex money, but even that is now starting to hit a wall as their stockpiles are running dry and their production can't keep up even with just the Ukraine conflict, and can't be expanded any time soon either. And Western Europeans are all talk, none of them are prepared to actually go to war and especially not their comfortable, pampered populations.
Good points.
The point is if the Ukrainians drones could travel so far in a swarm it could have been detected in belarus or in Russia and could have been shot down there. I mean how come a large number of drones attack could be carried out in Pskov without any major detection on its path.
-The US thinks Estonia could attack Russia and that Russia would only retaliate against Estonia? ...I mean why not ? Biden administration has sent F-16s which seemed crazy in 2022.
If (1) were true and Russia would only retaliate against Estonia that Estonia would be stupid enough to sacrifice itself for the rest of NATO? After watching what Russia has done to Ukraine? I know libs are oblibious, but…
To be fair, a lot of US and NATO military commanders are pissed that the Ukrainians are "afraid of casualties." So it wouldn't be a surprise if the yankees didn't genuinely believe the Estonians would be willing to die for NATO.
I wonder whether the yanks have decided it's too dangerous for them to fuck with China, so they're pivoting towards Europe, where Estonia is another potential sacrificial lamb.
@yogthos Whats your take on this ?
It's not out of realm of possibility, and it would be a serious provocation of that's the case. That said, this obviously doesn't change anything strategically, and I expect Russia will likely just ignore this. It's pretty clear that Russia has been dictating the pace of the war for a while now, and the fact that they haven't escalated yet indicates that they're content with the current state of things.
I imagine that Russia would prefer avoiding a direct conflict with NATO, and the war with the west is relegated to economic and geopolitical spheres instead. However, if Estonia is responsible for the strike that would indicate that at least some western countries are trying to provoke further escalation.
I agree with this take. Also Russia is not obligated to retaliate in the same way. They can respond asymmetrically by causing problems for Estonia in other ways and at a time of their choosing.
I think the people on the "pro-Russian" side who are always at the slightest provocation calling for some big escalation need to cool their jets, that kind of emotional response is just what the West wants.
They do these things because they aren't getting anywhere on the actual battlefield, in either the physical or the economic dimension. Psychological operations of little real consequence are all they have left.
Exactly, Russia understands the reason for the provocations perfectly well and there's no reason for Russia to react to these provocations. And completely agree that Russia has lots of options for asymmetric response.
Hey to tag people you need to make sure you choose their name from the dropdown menu when you start typing @x… so it looks like this in your editor [@yogthos@lemmygrad.ml](https://lemmygrad.ml/u/yogthos) which goes to @yogthos@lemmygrad.ml when you actually post the comment
Oh okay thanks
Np! Another thing is that you can’t actually ping people with your post text, you can only do it in comments
Hesitation will be taken by the west as weakness and a sign to escalate further.
Then again I’m not certain much as the US is sacrificing Ukraine and it’s people and already sacrificed Germany’s economy that they wouldn’t like to grab and throw the more deranged fascist eastern members of NATO into a hot war with Russia. Which could get very bad. The Biden regime I think may not be accepting of a defeat at all and think they can get into a direct war with Russia slowly, destroy them and push them out of all of Ukraine.
Quite honestly with these maniacs I can’t be certain they want an excuse for a full nuclear strike on Russia but thinking they can catch them with their pants down and come out on top for round two with China.
So using a nuclear strike could be playing into their hands but I’m not sure what options Russia has.
is there really any firm reason to believe this beyond the baltics being closer? i figured after they droned moscow they had the range. ukraine not 'admitting to it' seems expected because their drone campaign is mostly just terrorism, and it doesn't seem like they accomplished anything here. the drones getting through belarussian airspace is also unsurprising while they're not on war footing & ukrainian drones have made it similarly far through active russian air defenses
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