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this post was submitted on 18 Jun 2024
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If they'd died in the Saudi heat to a secular activity - at an F1 race event or inside a poorly A/C'd movie theater or trapped on an overheated bus - would that have been better?
So much of the modern Saudi state sees the Hajj as little more than a massive tourist attraction. They're heavily invested in Disney-fying the experience, such that the maximal number of high-paying visitors can slide through the building frictionlessly.
Which is a shame, because the Hajj as a cultural event was originally intended as this class-agnostic unifying practice social event. You aren't supposed to visit these holy sites encapsulated into these exclusive expensive little bubbles. You're intended to mingle with people from the rest of the world and revel in a certain shared experience common to the faith the world over.
What we're seeing isn't some toxic religious ideology that Saudi administrators need to cleanse for mass consumption. Instead, we're seeing a commercialization and stratification of ideology, by which elites get a bespoke Hajj experience and Saudi officials get to operate as gatekeepers of tradition at some astronomical markup.
Well I think religion is one of the few things you can get enough uneducated/dedicated people to die in the hundreds from heat stroke without people being like"I should probably leave"
All the examples you gave, of course except being trapped on a bus, people would realize there is a serious issue and start leaving once the first handful of people died.
"I'm not leaving the theater till I see the end of Iron man 2, I don't care that half the theaters dead and I'm next!"
EDIT
lol, weren't women not allowed to go alone until recently or still?
What a ridiculous statement. No it wouldn’t be better, but when was the last time you heard of nearly a thousand people dying at an F1 race event, or inside a movie theatre due to lack of AC? If that were happening multiple times per year we would shut down F1 /movie theaters in a heartbeat.
Fact is that the Hajj claims thousands of lives every year, all in the name of religion.
Yea as long as you aren’t a woman.
Don’t be surprised that people are using religion to grift the gullible and exploit the poor - that’s what religion is best at.
The Saudi government has an ethical responsibility to mitigate the risks. It’s not like this was some freak accident. This was entirely predictable and this will defiantly continue to happen until protections are put into place.
The Qatar World Cup killed a minimum of 400-500 project workers during construction.
I wish that were true. But we've got a history of being extremely callous with athletes and spectators alike.
I couldn't agree more. Shane they're cheap ass fucks
It’s ironic that you cite a country where the government and ruling family are linked inextricably to Islam, but I digress.
Name any other ongoing event that kills thousands of people every single year like clockwork.
Not trying to argue or anything… I just think that Islam is a foolish religion in the same way that Muslims might think that Mormonism is a foolish religion.
Mormonism is stupid, but if they had an event that killed thousands of people from Utah every year I would like to think that at least OSHA would step in or something.