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Biden supporters mostly back him in 2024 election because they oppose Trump, poll finds
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 10 Jun 2024
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I don't really think I'm going to convince that poster. I know, like Trump supporters, they are probably long gone and no amount of pointing out that they have no evidence is going to convince them that the DNC not screwed him, Sanders would have won. I just watch young people shifting towards the right, and it's probably partially because of these dopes spreading this lie about the democrats, so I'm speaking to anyone who might come after them.
I doubt being grumpy about Sanders is going to shift folk to be right-wing. A lot of them probably HAVE become tankies but... the Sanders campaign was already very heavily buoyed by tankies online. Because it would have been shooting fish in a barrel for the candidate most known for "fun nicknames" to be up against a guy who used to be a meme about how c-span was boring and actively refused to even say "While I think the socioeconomic model had a lot of benefits, I oppose the fascist communist regimes of olde".
But also? I know a few of the dumbest "Bernie or bust" morons you will ever see who focused that anger toward working with the Democrats to get considerably less shitty downballot candidates. And that is what the lesson should have been.
It certainly turns them off of the Democrats. So maybe not a shift to the right, but certainly conditions where it increases the chance that the right is going to win. If Bernie bros had just accepted the outcome and then coalesced around Clinton, she likely would have won and we wouldn't be in the same mess we're in now.
So you’re saying the DNC’s actions undermining the primary election had real consequences? Or are those consequences not concrete enough?
Or are you saying we should accept their schemes, offer no consequences or criticism and just blindly follow?
Cause I certainly agree that we likely wouldn’t be in the current situation if the DNC had been above board and true to their role.
No. I made my argument was clear from the start, you even initially argued against my actual point, and I just restated here. And now you are dishonestly trying to spin the argument into something else.
I guess you realize that you've got nothing, which is why you are so desperate to make it about something else now.
Your initial statement was clear but your subsequent comments across threads have not been.
It went from the primary was clear and upstanding, to there’s good reason to doubt the results, to it having no real effect other than some nasty words spoken, to it costing Hilary the election.
Which one is your actual point?
I've now made it explicitly clear what my point is at least 3 times. And you're still trying to make the argument about something else. Amazing.
You can admit you might be wrong, my friend. I was too about this for a while. The important thing is to learn and grow.
You’ve claimed several points that conflict and when asked directly what your point is you talk around it.
My point was Bernie got cheated out of that primary election
Your point was that the primary was above board and there was no reason to question it
Then you later agreed that there was good reason to question it
And now your point is that your point is clear?
The people who are dumb enough to have a life long grudge because one candidate they liked didn't get the nomination were never going to support the party to begin with. The moment ANY candidate was not exactly what they wanted they were going to throw a hissy and run away.
Because... they are not leftists or even left leaning. They are just spoiled children who decided they wanted something and are now mad they didn't get it. If they actually cared about politics or social issues, rather than what the hasans of the world say on stream, they would be angrily voting for Biden anyway.
The poster is claiming that the DNC rigged the election against Sanders, or at least were so unfair that it's fair to say he might have won otherwise. If people believe they are actually this corrupt, it will turn people off from the party. I've already stated that this is not about the dopes who have convinced themselves, with no evidence, that he actually got screwed. This is about stopping other people from falling for the lie.
Again, if they are dumb enough to believe that the DNC actively sabotaged the party because Reasons then they would otherwise be dumb enough to consider themselves "moderate" or "apolitical" under any other context.
At which point... it doesn't matter. Someone who is going to refuse to vote because 12 years ago jet fuel didn't melt steel beams or whatever are going to refuse to vote because "my vote doesn't matter" or "this candidate is too old" or whatever. And they are the kind of voters who are swayed by the strongman bullshit anyway.
Anyone who ACTUALLY cares about politics and social issues are going to vote along those lines. We won't like it but we will. And the rest? They are just as easily won over by one snazzy commercial before a pewdiepie video. And then they still won't bother to vote because they are angry that they were asked to pick a political party when they renewed their driver's license ten years ago.
All engaging the stupidity does is legitimize it.
Projection at its finest.
When you actually offer up something other than "they said nasty things about him!" then we can talk. So far tho, nothing.