You may have noticed a distinct lack of return2ozma. This is due to their admitting, in a public comment, that their engagement here is in bad faith:
I'm sure there will be questions, let me see if I can address the most obvious ones:
- Can I still post negative stuff about Biden?
Absolutely! We have zero interest in running an echo chamber. However, if ALL you're posting is negative, you may want to re-think your priorities. You get out of the world what you put into it and all that.
- Why now?
Presumption of innocence. It may be my own fault, but I do try to think the best of people, and even though they were posting negative articles, they weren't necessarily WRONG. Biden's poll numbers, particularly in minority demographics ARE in the shitter. They are starting to get better, but he still has a hell of a hill to climb.
- Why a 30 day temp ban and not a permanent ban?
The articles return2ozma shared weren't bad, faked, or from some wing-nut bias site like "beforeitsnews.com", they were legitimate articles from established and respected news agencies, pointing out the valid problems Biden faces.
The problem was ONLY posting the negatives, over and over and then openly admitting that dishonest enagement is their purpose.
Had they all been bullshit articles? It would not have taken anywhere near this much time to lay the ban and it would have been permanent.
30 days seems enough time for them to re-think their strategery and come back to engage honestly.
Should I take that these comments are still up near 24 hours later with no follow up to mean that they don’t break any rules?
Starting from here:
https://lemmy.world/comment/10473647
Yeah, there's nothing actionable there. The downvotes and replies do the job.
Guy is making a provably false argument, that's proven to be false.
So to sum up:
Posting “too many” true but negative things about Biden - Bannable
Posting denials of specific, provable homophobic incidents and only interacting with posts about LGBT issues to do that specifically: somehow doesn’t violate the civility rule despite being homophobic or the rule on good faith interaction
Thanks for being honest about where your priorities lie.
There were two comment threads by the way, not sure if you looked at the other since you only mention one.
Happy Pride 🥳
Nothing in their comments is overtly homophobic. He's arguing that someone didn't say something they clearly said as a college student.
All of which is provably false as per the comments and downvotes.
Sorry, I didn’t mean to give the impression that I was open to debate over whether it’s homophobic to deny a politician spouting homophobia (when he literally admitted he did so) and deny that a pastor called LGBTQ+ movement demonic when there is video of it (did you even read the second link to this thread? You still seem to think there was only one thread). It is homophobic, full stop.
There is not a non-homophobic reason to go to multiple threads about LGBT people having bigotry aimed at them and to deny that it’s happening.
So if you could explain to me how homophobia doesn’t violate the rules I’d appreciate it.
What he's engaging in, in the second link, is Christian apology, not overt homophobia. He's not saying LGBTQ+ is the devil, he's explaining why Christians might believe that.
Which is a whole OTHER deal:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_apologetics
Again, not actionable. If they were to come out and say themselves "I'm homophobic" or "gays are teh debbil" then, yeah, that would be removed.
But this whole "homophobia because it's two steps removed"? Not so much.
Oopsie, thought I was clear about this: I don’t care how you justify it as not homophobia. It is homophobic to come into posts only about bigotry being aimed at LGBT people to deny that it’s happening.
If it makes you uncomfortable to sit with the fact that you’re fine with running a community where homophobic comments are welcome, then good. It should. That’s a choice you’re making that you can change at any time.
The comments are not, in and of themselves, homophobic. Not actionable.
I don’t know why you think I’m interested in hearing you deny that these homophobic comments are homophobic, but if you need to be told again explicitly: I’m not interested in hearing it and I’m also not debating it.
If you need help understanding why it’s homophobic to deny that bigoted comments are being aimed at LGBT people or don’t understand how that fosters an environment hostile to LGBT people generally, feel free to ask.
Because you are the one continuing to demand they be removed for homophobia when they are not, by themselves, homophobic.
I've explained to you, repeatedly, why they are not actionable. I can't help you accept that fact, but guilt by association is not against the rules.
Ping me when they, themselves, are being homophobic. As of now they are not.
OK, since it wasn’t clear to you before, I understand that your position as a mod is that homophobia is only homophobia if it fits a middle aged straight man’s cartoon caricature of what homophobia looks like. Unfortunately that doesn’t fit the real world experience of LGBT people dealing with homophobia.
If you need help understanding why calling the LGBT community demonic is homophobic or why denying that bigoted speech against LGBT people even happens is homophobic you can ask for help at any time. Until then this is just a community where veiled homophobia is welcome. Again, this is a choice you have made and can change at any time.
(sigh) One more time...
That user DID NOT call the LGBT community demonic.
If they did, that comment would have been removed.
What that user DID DO was explain what justifcation a Christian fanatic would have for doing so.
Doing it themself? Homophobia.
Talking about why someone else did it is NOT HOMOPHOBIA.
And for the person reporting my other comment, my having to explain this is ALSO not homophobia!
This discussion is over.
If you don’t have anything to say other than “nuh uh this isn’t homophobia” then please just stop replying, it’s pointless.
Multiple times I’ve offered to educate you (which you are clearly not interested in). You denied that saying the LGBT community is demonic is even homophobic itself, by hand waving it away as Christian theology (as though the two are unrelated to begin with, much less exclusive). I did not say the user specifically said that. I’m saying that excusing and denying it is not a significant difference. Please at least read what I’m saying if you’re going to condescendingly explain to me what homophobia is.
I’m fine with this discussion being over, you’ve made your position very clear. Especially to anyone who wants a green light on what types of homophobic comments are acceptable here.
Again, if you want any education on this I am more than happy to help you out. But until you grok this you’re going to miss more homophobic comments and foster an environment where homophobia is welcome.
You are clearly misrepresenting what I am explaining to you in no uncertain terms:
Here's what I LITERALLY TOLD YOU:
Let me explain it to you like this...
Someone makes an incredibly stupid comment.
I explain why they might think that way.
That does NOT, in and of itself, make ME stupid. It's not an agreement or an endorsement of their stupidity, it's not a value judgement at all. It's an explanation.
So some idiot preacher makes an INCREDIBLY vile and homophobic video.
Somebody else explains how that tracks because Christianity has a skewed world view.
That does not make that comment intrinsically homophobic.
Had they gone "He's right! X, Y, and Z!" that would be homophobic and would have been removed.
THAT IS NOT WHAT HE DID.
If you can’t finish reading my sentences please don’t respond to me. I clearly stated that I was not trying to say the user called the LGBT community demonic. I’m saying that defending that statement by denying that it even happened or saying that it’s not homophobic because it’s a Christian theological point are themselves forms of homophobia that LGBT people encounter all the time. If you are fine with that then you are fine with homophobia in this community.
If you believe anything else you’ve said has been misrepresented feel free to have a polite discussion with me about it. Right now it seems like you just want me to say that the comments weren’t actually homophobic when they are.
The Blahaj admins had no problems instantly recognizing the account for what it was and banning them as well as removing the homophobic comments. I don’t think I’m imagining homophobia here as you’re implying.
Again, if you have any questions about how this is homophobic I am more than happy to help you understand. But what’s not going to happen is convincing me it’s not homophobic. If that’s your only intent then this conversation is best left here.
You do know that your entire comment history is visible here, right? You get that?
So when you say now "I clearly stated that I was not trying to say the user called the LGBT community demonic."
That's EXACTLY what you're saying when you demand, repeatedly, that their comment be removed for homophobia.
If the user did not make that assertion, the comment is NOT removable.
Here's what they said:
"The organizations supporting the movement are acting on reasoning based on philosophy that Christianity has historically identified with the devil. It's no joke his language is theological, i identify this as a Christian perspective. He's probably identifying the philosophy since the organizations themselves he labels as demonic. Obviously, he never said the people are demonic, and as fake news this article is, they manipulate to say he's accusing the homosexuals as being demonic. It's a fake news tactic."
There is not one word of homophobia in that quote. Not a single word. It is not removable and will not be removed, at least by me.
You're free to disagree, you're free to downvote, it does not break the rules.
I literally can’t downvote you or see downvotes, I’m on Blahaj.
If you don’t understand that someone can be homophobic without saying “I’m a homophobe and hate gay people” then you’re just illustrating my point here. Homophobia is welcome in this community as long as you give it the slightest veil.
If you have any questions about how the comments I linked are homophobic I am happy to answer them at any time. At this point you still seem uninterested.
Please do not contact me again only to attempt to convince me that the user banned from the instance I’m on for being a bigot wasn’t actually being bigoted.
Goodbye 👋😙