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what do you even say
(lemmy.ml)
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this post was submitted on 28 May 2024
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Lefty Memes
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An international (English speaking) socialist Lemmy community free of the "ML" influence of instances like lemmy.ml and lemmygrad. This is a place for undogmatic shitposting and memes from a progressive, anti-capitalist and truly anti-imperialist perspective, regardless of specific ideology.
Serious posts, news, and discussion go in c/Socialism.
If you are new to socialism, you can ask questions and find resources over on c/Socialism101.
Please don't forget to help keep this community clean by reporting rule violations, updooting good contributions and downdooting those of low-quality!
Rules
0. Only post socialist memes
That refers to funny image macros and means that generally videos and screenshots are not allowed. Exceptions include explicitly humorous and short videos, as well as (social media) screenshots depicting a funny situation, joke, or joke picture relating to socialist movements, theory, societal issues, or political opponents. Examples would be the classic case of humorous Tumblr or Twitter posts/threads. (and no, agitprop text does not count as a meme)
1. Socialist Unity in the form of mutual respect and good faith interactions is enforced here
Try to keep an open mind, other schools of thought may offer points of view and analyses you haven't considered yet. Also: This is not a place for the Idealism vs. Materialism or rather Anarchism vs. Marxism debate(s), for that please visit c/AnarchismVsMarxism.
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as well as condemning (their) imperialism, even if it is of the "anti-USA" flavor.
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That includes so called: Social Democracy, Democratic Socialism, Dengism, Market Socialism, Patriotic Socialism, National Bolshevism, Anarcho-Capitalism etc. . Anti-Socialist people and content have no place here, as well as the variety of "Marxist"-"Leninists" seen on lemmygrad and more specifically GenZedong (actual ML's are welcome as long as they agree to the rules and don't just copy paste/larp about stuff from a hundred years ago).
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The only dangerous minority is the rich.
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We must constructively learn from their mistakes, while acknowledging their achievements and recognizing when they have strayed away from socialist principles.
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Notable achievements in all spheres of society were made by various socialist/people's/democratic republics around the world. Mistakes, however, were made as well: bureaucratic castes of parasitic elites - as well as reactionary cults of personality - were established, many things were mismanaged and prejudice and bigotry sometimes replaced internationalism and progressiveness.
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(This is not a definitive list, the spirit of the other rules still counts! Eventual duplicates with other rules are for emphasis.)
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I disagree. Memes are powerful tools and by denying ourselves the use of popular memes we grant "the enemy" an enormous advantage. Better we acknowledge that the issue is not the meme itself, but how it is used.
But there is an issue with the meme itself. It often associates whiteness (notice how the chad is explicitly a white guy with blonde hair and blue eyes) with being good/right, or physical characteristics associated with 'stupidity' (drooling, dented head) with being wrong. The underlying white supremacy & ableism is still there.
And no, we shouldn’t compromise on our values to use popular memes.
I dunno, I see your point but does the guy on the left really have a dented head? I thought those were forehead lines from emotional agitation. Also, where is the drool? I only see tears. I don't really see the inherent ableism, as much as I see a negative representation things like lack of emotional regulation, "neckbeardyness," etc. I agree moreso on the whiteness and general tidyness of the chad, and the association of beauty with good and ugliness with bad -- I kinda buy your argument there. It is pretty shit that we do that, but I don't necessarily think it's wrong for the OP to use this meme template. Ignorant? Maybe.
I feel like you could use similar strategies to decry any meme. For example, the glorification of violence through imagery and use of the word "weapon" in your own meme. Obviously, I'm not going to seriously suggest you're perpetuating the glorification of violence through your meme, but I kinda think its the same with OPs meme.
Edit: to be clear, all my thoughts on this are entirely from the last 20 min. I assumed you've thought more about this subject than me, so I consider myself pretty swayable. But idk, my initial reaction is that we're looking too far into a meme.
When I talk about dented head and drools, I’m not referring to this soyjak in particular (which is far from the worst), but many who are commonly used have that, such as this one (obvious CW for ableism)
Sorry for the confusion there!
(to clarify, I don’t think OP had any shitty intentions. but that’s why we should point out this stuff IMO, because it slips through the cracks and even people with good intentions can unknowingly spread shitty ideologies. I’m certainly not free of blame either)
as for the rest… well yea, no piece of media is morally without faults, memes included. but in the case of wojaks, I fell like the faults are high and obvious enough that we should still avoid using them.
Oh yeah that one is bad, you're right. Also the meme with the bell curve is definitely ableist. Hmm, you definitely bring up good points. Gotta chew on it a little. Much of this is just ingrained in us.
Can you elaborate?
It is conveyed that the left should not resort to populism and simple imagery such as "wojacks" We prefer referring to nuanced 500 page essays to convey our arguments so that anyone without sufficient vocabulary and/or time will remain excluded from our circles.
Thesaurus > Wojack.
she's alluding to the fact that these characters — the 'soyjack' and 'gigachad' — are historically, and still actively are, alt-right charicatures. together with their friends, 'tradwife' and 'doomer (girl)': they represent misogynistic, racist, antisemitic, and white supremacist tropes.
Must they continue to do so? On their own they are nothing but stand-ins for people or ideologies. If we can reclaim entire slurs, surely we can reclaim these, no?
Even on their own, the shitty alt-right ideology is still present. Notice how the chad, the guy we’re meant to agree with, is very often (not always, but often) a white, blonde-haired, blue-eyed guy?
Or how the guy with the wrong opinions we’re meant to mock is often a drooling person with a dented head?
The ableism and white supremacy of the right is still perceptible in the meme, even when it’s used to push leftist messages.
and on a more basic level, the idea of bad opinion = ugly, good opinion = beautiful is shitty and flirts with white supremacy (because what’s beautiful is very often dictated by eurocentric beauty standards), but that’s a problem in our societies as a whole, not just with this meme
None of those things necessarily need to be true, especially not
The shouting crying soyjak for depicting opinions of people who continue to hold stupid opinions despite all evidence to the contrary fits fairly well, and if you don't like the beauty standards set by the default chad, there's nothing stopping you from substituting your own, or just using any calm, levelheaded character in its place.
They represent what the meme creator intends, nothing else.
Ah I see thanks