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this post was submitted on 04 Jul 2023
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What the heck? I thought this was supposed to be fixed by all of us using paper straws and driving hybrids?
Well in reality there isn't much we can do as normal folk to reverse or slow down the impending doom of global warming.
It's all in the hands of the big corporations that we all know are the biggest contributors, to the whole debacle. They are not going to change a damn thing because is all about the extreme profiteering.
Yes and no, I think. Obviously one single person can't make a tangible difference all by themselves, but to stop the thought process there does a massive disservice to the importance of collective action. It doesn't take all that many people to affect change, both politically and culturally. Join CCL (US focus here), vote and advocate for carbon fee and dividend and other beneficial policies, buy less shit you don't need, ride a bike if you can, and if you have the means electrify your home/vehicle and support more ethical companies. Basically, don't blame BP if you're putting 20 gallons of their shit in your 4runner every week so you can commute to an office job with a permanent rooftop tent and a "save our winters" sticker on the back (yes I live in the front range). You're not responsible for all of humanity, but you are responsible for your own actions when you have the means to choose a less carbon intensive option.
This is just propaganda from the 90s/00s. The amount of carbon that any one middle class home generates is nothing compared to the private jet class and the corporate desolation of the environment. I hate capitalism. I hate consumerism. I hate cars. But don't act like the onus is on what basically amounts to a peasant class that already pays for almost everything and does nearly all of the work (the middle class). It's systemic greed, deregulation, and industrial rape of the world's resources by shit governments and corporations that have put us here. Stop making the middle class responsible for something they have no power to change even though most of us are anxious as fuck about it. If enough individuals can simultaneously change their carbon footprint to the point that it actually affects the coming consequences, then we should have just formed a general strike already to reverse capitalism caused climate change. But we didn't.
The carbon emission from anyone in a developed country is a gargantuan amount compared to the poorest people on earth, especially if you consider the share of CO2 emissions since the industrial revolution.
The "private jet class" you are talking about is the "peasant class" of the developed countrles.
No one want to be accountable, corporate blame it on consumers, consumer blame it on corporate, and the state doesn't want to act because they fear the backslash from both citizens and corporations.
We urgently need drastic change that will undoubtedly and severely lower our quality of life. No magic tech is coming to save us.
???
Don't you know that people living on minimum wage in the US are all flying private jets?
It is all the corporations but not how anyone thinks. Corporations want you to buy things. That is all. Corporations shifted it to the consumer with the whole reduce, reuse, recycle thing. The average person in the US buys way too many things. The FIRE movement recognized this in the 2010s. Joe Dominguez and Vicki Robin figured it out before they wrote the book Your Money or Your Life in the 1990s. Every dollar you spend = emissions.
Last, I present the great George Carlin:
https://youtu.be/KLODGhEyLvk
I agree, we need to reverse the conspicuous consumerism that was promoted by corporate marketing departments. This is not going to be a simple task.
No, it's propaganda to absolve people from their collective responsibility and blame the nebulous capitalist and corporatism boogeymen while ignoring things they actually can accomplish, like voting for policies and regulations that will have an actual impact. The Soviet Union and China have emitted a shit ton of carbon, but I suppose that's all capitalism's fault too. Your post is a walking contradiction - people have no responsibility or agency and shouldn't bother doing anything, yet are also supposed to general strike and fix everything. Your attitude is pro-status quo and therefore serves the entrenched interests you claim to be rallying against.
Ahh yes, the "just vote harder" argument. Speaking of "pro-status quo" lmao. What is your next advice to those of us who already vote (which is the bare minimum, not some silver bullet that ends all of our problems)?
Climate crisis, corporate ownership of government, and governmental corruption are all reality because you didn't vote enough, you stupid idiots! /s
Considering huge numbers of people don't vote at all, and many others that do vote against their self interests and for their short term gain over environmental policies, we collectively have a lot of work to do on this front. I agree voting is the bare minimum but it bears repeating since we suck at it.
If you actually care about my "next advice", you should be writing your reps, nationally and locally, on a regular basis, you should organize with groups like CCL, and you should get involved in local transportation and housing policy discussions. What's your job/career? Can you enact any change there, or move to a job that has more opportunity? I could go on and on. Not attacking you personally, but most folks I've met with the doom and gloom, not my problem attitude don't do fuck all.
You're asking me what people can do and I've given multiple examples. What are your ideas? All I'm hearing is we should have done a general strike and killed capitalism, as if cheap natural gas is only a problem when a capitalist burns it for profit.
Calling to individual action to solve climate change is literally the status quo
Many things can be the status quo at once. I'm just tired of binary, weak thinking that blames any one party 100% and absolves all others, which is why I started my original post with "yes and no". It's not productive, and it's already crystal clear what we need to do as a society - go read Drawdown for a simple primer on decarbonization and what needs to happen. If people actually did the individual action thing en masse it would have a real effect (not enough in isolation of course) but surprise, lots of people don't actually give a shit and hide behind their nihilism and the "corporations are the real problem" thing. Folks should focus on enacting policies first, then individual actions where they can. Doing nothing is, well, worth nothing.
Here's the thing though: The collective carbon footprint of the middle class absolutely dwarfs that of the private jet class.
The middle class is responsible, the middle class will pay, and honestly I'm here for it.
Fret not, clown! The middle class will be dead and your billionaire buddies will be treating each other like loot drops because none of this is being reversed. Fucking pick me peasant lmao get the fuck out of here.
Billionaires ain't no buddies of mine. They will be able to buy their way free of the worst of the climate disaster, and that sucks.
But the middle class, at least, will have to pay their dues. And that does not suck.
The issue is people who consume/pollute 10x as much as others per person. People can try to reduce their footprint but it's pretty lame when some rich person creates as much pollution in one unnecessary plane trip as my household would all year.
Indeed, but 10x doesn't cut it. The middle class pollutes about 100x more than the lower class per capita. But they'll get what's coming to them.
Okay, so my point was wealthy people dramatically exceed that figure, too. Your claim about total pollution isn't that convincing since yes, obviously 150,000,000 middle class people have more of an impact than 1,000,000 very wealthy people. But per-capita, for sure the people taking private jets blow away the middle class. But is the average American wasteful? Sure. However also our society has been set up so it's very difficult to live without a car and a ton of semi-disposable manufactured items. People emerging from poverty in countries like India and China have shown plenty of enthusiasm to live in the same wasteful way as the middle class in the west, so... also not sure what your point is. Those people don't pollute as much because they can't afford to, not because they're morally superior.
And that is a problem from a social perspective. But from a climate perspective, focusing on the wealthy is nothing more than an attempt to shift blame.
Society has not been set up like that by accident. This, too, is the fault of the middle class, for being lazy fucks who would rather drive their car everywhere than look for alternative modes of transport; for eating meat two or even three meals a day, every day; for choosing to live in their mcmansions in car dependant suburban sprawls instead of denser housing; etc. etc.
They are part of the problem, of course.
The point is that over the next several decades, a lot of people will get what they fucking deserve 👍
The people who suffer the most will be people in developing countries, already subsisting on sketchy agriculture and short on fresh water, when they're hit the hardest by climate change and lack resources to migrate or change their lifestyle.
Absolutely. And that sucks. But I derive a certain catharsis from knowing that at least some of the people responsible will suffer along with them.
I've been trying to make changes to my consuming habits for a good number of years in pro of contributing (however small it might be) to the climate change fight. But, just as on wintermule says in the comments. It might be a lost fight for us mere individuals.
Just look at the data and then you'll realise that corporatins have been screwing the planet for a long long time now.
It’s not a lost fight at all. The largest single contributors to global warming are :
It’s very easy for people to make some choices to put a huge dent in both of these…if they want to.
The sad fact is that when confronted by this, most people I speak so make excuses about why they couldn’t possibly make changes to their own lives.
Yes, these are systemic issues. But don’t pretend you’re powerless - that’s just a fucking cop-out.
This
If their consumers aren’t setting a good example then why should they? They don’t care as long as we don’t.
I think the straw thing is much more about trash than it is about combating climate change. Plastic getting into the eco system and building up in landfills is a big problem too, but it's a different and also important problem.
I will never understand how anyone bought into the paper straw bullshit keeping plastic out of the ocean. It's just so fucking ludicrous. Sure, plastic straws sit in our land fills for 500 years, but they have leach fields and containment ponds and multiple layers of contamination control.
Meanwhile there are entire fleets of fishing vessels, streaming thousands of miles of plastic fishing net through the ocean, every single day.
But yeah, it's the fucking McDonalds drinking straws that are the problem...
Action should be taken on all fronts, and I would argue that big companies should be made to take action before squeezing households into it. The opposite is happening unfortunately. I feel guilt every time I do the dishes, while the clothing industry is overusing and polluting everyone's water. That won't stop me from making the effort, but we need to burn down some parliaments if we are ever to see big corps react.
I see it as a first and necessary step. Remember the CFCs in deodorants and the effect of banning them?
Been looking for this big picture... has anyone seen it?
Oh it’s easy. They bought into it because straws are used in public so a paper straw becomes an opportunity to virtue signal.
Paper straws? lol Recycling Aluminum? whoa babyyyyy
No that just helps us from setting even more new records 40 years from now.
No no no, you don’t understand. Now you have to stop eating meat and they need your permission to block out the sun
See below for proof
Unironically, yes we really should eat much less meat and use more renewables sources of energy (like blocking out the sun with solar panels)
I always find it strange that the most immediate and effective change any individual can make is giving up or greatly reducing their animal product intake. Will it fix the world? No. But would it actually at least somewhat of a difference? Yes. Is it something you can do right now, today, without any real effort whatsoever? Yep.
But what is pretty much no one willing to do? Give up/reduce animal products in their lives.
It was the easiest change I ever made. 31 years ago. No meat. No dairy. No eggs.
Oh, and no car.
Guess that's too hard for people and they'd rather die in a war over water.
People don't make any sense.
I don't totally understand this either, though recently maybe more I understand it better. Seems like people cannot live without those things. I know someone who started crying when she realized she couldn't spend as much money as before (only to use the crying to get more money to buy things). Or my sister, who asks my parents for money all the time so she can maintain her chosen lifestyle. If she can't do that then life becomes difficult. It boggles my mind that 'difficult' is not being able to vacation twice a year but whatever.
The stress that less-vulnerable people experienced during covid when the main thing they had to do was not expand their social life for a year or two was a good example of how people are. The anger at not being able to go to the bar every weekend was nuts to me.
Few people can live a monastic life and feel like they are fulfilled, and fewer if any will feel good about that kind of life if they are forced into it. So who and how are they making those choices? We aren't taught to be frugal, we're taught to spend, it's our education towards living a "good life".
I think if you got people to stop eating meat and driving 2 blocks to the grocery store they'd grow depressed, frustrated, productivity would drop, birth rates would drop, life expectancy would drop. People need that stuff to feel good about their lives, and if you want to take it away you either need a near perfect competitor or take it away by force.
People do these things to fight negative emotions. If you want people to change their ways being arrogant and not showing any empathy won't help.
Anybody who is dependent on consumerism got to that point because society sells these things like tasty food, vacation, alcohol, tech gadgets, etc., as an easy fix for pain and other internal struggles. It's not about teaching them to be frugal. Almost everybody has something they rely on to deal with their negative emotions, but it's easier to see in others than in ourselves.
Oh I guess I wasn't clear, but I absolutely see this in myself. That's how I came to this conclusion recently because I've been cutting back so much and I realized that I can't, I just can't. I need a beer on the weekend, I need to enjoy a meal at a restaurant every once in a while, I love the convenience of using a car to get somewhere.
But I am for sure judgy of people who seem to make zero effort and take any intrusion on their lifestyle to be 'too much'. I mean driving 2 blocks to the grocery store? Really. They are able bodied people.
What? Arrogant how? I feel like we're saying the same thing here.
Sorry, I didn't mean this on you specifically. Just that we can not tell people (as a society) to just live more frugal without addressing the overall problems that drive so many into consumerism. It's a bit like how people treat drug addicts. I see the same in the recent climate debate. Instead of focusing on the root issue, it is reduced to judging other people's morals or character.
I wanted them to start that project a decade ago... It's going to be over the pole to mimic the ice cap effect.