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this post was submitted on 04 Dec 2023
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Wow we went through nearly 3 years of recession start tomorrow and now it's not even going to happen. Even weather reporters are better.
Plenty of economists have been saying that avoiding a significant recession has been entirely possible. A recession is generally defined by at least two successive quarters of GDP decline, and while this did technically happen in 2022, the second quarter was only -0.6%, and the following quarter was back up to +2.7%.
It really needs to be stressed that not all bad economic circumstances are recessions. That's a very specific thing.
Recession doesn't have a hard definition. At best economists only admit to recessions when they are already in progress.
There's some amount of fuzziness, yes, and as I said, most economists wouldn't call that 2022 dip a meaningful recession, but regardless, a recession is absolutely, by definition, a contraction in GDP. That has not been happening. GDP growth has been above +2% for the last five quarter, and in Q3 of this year, it was +5%.
There is no economist alive that will tell you that five quarters of GDP growth is a recession, because words have meanings.
Edit: And before you ask, yes, even adjusting for inflation, it's been five quarters of GDP growth. This doesn't imply that there are no economic problems happening, but a recession is not one of them. Not all bad weather is a tornado.
I don't necessarily disagree with your overall point, but GDP is just a measure commonly used to designate an economic recession. Downward movement in GDP is not the definition of a recession, though it's a reliably used indicator. There's a reason the US uses a voting body of economists to say there's a recession rather than an algorithm linked to GDP numbers.
I don't know why we let the economists define our terms. Be like doctors redefining illness to only being one disease and announcing that they cured all illnesses
No, that would be like people re-defining all sickness to be a cold, and then getting annoyed when their doctors tell them that Chlamydia is not, in fact, a cold and won't be cured by time and Tylenol.
No I had it right the first time, but thanks for your "help". I know what YOU economists did and don't need you to explain your version of events.
..... No, you fucked it up both times
If you think professionals defining the terms of their profession is outrageous, graduating high school is gonna drop a brick on your head
Nope.
Lol, aight bud, you keep going on thinking you invent definitions of words used by people in jobs you dont work
That will get you as far as a fly pisses, but dont let that stop ya
Even economists don't like to use the exact same metrics and parameters to "define" a recession every time. And most importantly, a significant portion like to do it after the fact. Because saying something like "a lack of growth for x consecutive quarters", etc, doesn't cover all possibilities.
Cue all the people that think a single definition they learned about is the only one that exists and should exist for no discernable practical reason.
"I dunno why we let doctors define all our illnesses." Yeah it might be cause they are more informed on the nuance of their work to know what defined the terms
Shocks me the confidence some folk have about topics theyve never studied
Apples and oranges. Economics has always struggled with mathematical rigor because it's a highly dynamic system with too many variables that are impossible to control if only to study well, so our understanding of it and how to shape it is still growing. Most importantly, it doesn't have the same level of certainty in its claims from a scientific perspective as a panel of doctors would have in discussing illnesses. There's also the difference in political stakes. The economy is doing the same no matter whether you are able to affix a label on it or not (that many economists won't want to decide on until it's behind us). We're just arguing on whether we get to use that label, when most people in the U.S. are struggling. They're focusing on what affects them, whereas economists are also looking at a bigger range of other factors, including how businesses and the higher classes are faring. This is where the divide comes from. At the end of the day, you're not going to convince most people they aren't in pain, because they are, based on metrics they don't care about.
Wait, sorry, you were agreeing with the other guy who thinks economists shouldnt be the people defining economic terms?
So, what, you think dentists should be defining economic terms? Plumbers?
TIL I am an economist
Sorry about economist apologist. Better?
Weather doesnt read the weather report and change itself in response.
People read economics reports and spend differently in response.
Start giving the northern wind a newspaper, and you will see the weather report falter.