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For context: The thread was about why people hate Hexbear and Lemmygrad instances

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[-] A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world 31 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

So many people here trying to argue dictionary definitions and hide behind technicalities to make their little slice of authoritarianism better than that other slice of authoritarianism.

edit

Good lord, look at the replies to this post. Even being called out on the behavior, they still cant resist slapfighting over silly technicalities and dictionary definitions.

[-] Sanyanov@lemmy.world 14 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Communism isn't inherently authoritarian, it holds no relation to authoritarianism or democracy, just like capitalism, and can exist within any political formation. Conflating communism with authoritarianism and capitalism with democracy will likely result in completely justified dictionary arguments, as this misconception is actually very important ideologically.

Associating communism with things like USSR or, in an even more cursed way, China and claiming communism is authoritarian is actively harmful, especially considering that neither of them ever had communism to begin with - they had socialism and claimed to be directed towards communism some time in the future.

Such shortcuts, like communism=authoritarianism=evil prevent you from actually familiarizing yourself with the concepts and puts you in a position when you oppose a strawman.

[-] Socsa@sh.itjust.works 5 points 11 months ago

The problem is that the orthodox MLs you find on lemmy do un ironically defend autocracy in the USSR and China, dismissing criticism of these states as western propaganda.

Trust me, id love a leftist space on the internet which doesn't make folk heroes out of tyrants. Lemmy is not that place.

[-] Delta_V@midwest.social 2 points 11 months ago

Context matters in this discussion.

The moderators of the lemmy instance OP got banned from have Russian and Chinese iconography in their profiles - its explicitly authoritarian and arguably communist in name only in order to attract naive idealists who otherwise would be against authoritarianism.

[-] BirdyBoogleBop@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 11 months ago

There are many on Lemmy who do associate Communism with the USSR and China and also think it is a good thing.

[-] Sanyanov@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

True, but that's another story. Being communist doesn't mean being a tankie. Some communists are, some aren't, and as such conflating the two is wrong.

[-] A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago

Yes, exactly like that is what i was talking about.

[-] PoliticalAgitator@lemm.ee 6 points 11 months ago

Regardless, there is an important distinction.

You can argue all you like that political systems like communism and socialism may have lead to things like corruption, famine, wars and genocide but ultimately, the people who support those systems are seeking a fairer way to run society for all people and believe in it despite its history.

Head over to the far-right and the genocide is the point. They want "undesirables" to be killed, enslaved or completely repressed.

[-] Socsa@sh.itjust.works 5 points 11 months ago

That's the rub though. Many of us do support democratic socialism and social democracy, and are excluded, mocked, and banned because those forms of leftist ideology aren't edgy enough.

I've tried to calmly explain the academic basis for democratic socialism on lemmy a number of times, and it inevitably results in me getting banned, mostly for being critical of the shockingly violent rhetoric favored my ML purists.

[-] PoliticalAgitator@lemm.ee -2 points 11 months ago

Then either make your comment and eat the downvotes or just don't make the comment at all. You're functionally complaining that a Facebook anti-vax group isn't listening to your science.

[-] bastion@feddit.nl 1 points 11 months ago

There's no need to make that argument - history has made it time and time again, and if you succeed at a communist revolution, history will again show that it was a bad idea.

The problem isn't the motives or empathy of the communist and socialist idealists. The problem is the willingness to face hard truths.

It's definitely better to seek a better way to run society. But it's definitely not better to claim you are doing so while executing an old, rehashed playbook of societal failure, claiming It Just Wasn't Done Right Before™️.

We need a better system. Communism is not it. Any system you build must be one that resolvea the ideals of communism with the pragmatism of capitalism. When that system is found, it will address the weaknesses of both.

I think that system is culturally-rooted sovereignty - that each person takes responsibility for their own life and for the sovereignty of others, because it is in their own best interest to do so. It is how I live.

The nice ring about it is that I don't have to convince anyone else to live that way - I get the benefits of it just by living it. The difficult thing about it is that I don't get the psychological convenience of thinking others should think as I do - everyone has their own reasons to live as they do. Until they cross a sovereignty boundary, and I'm involved somehow, I get no say.

[-] Socsa@sh.itjust.works 5 points 11 months ago

The problem with socialist revolutions is that they reject liberalism, which is foundational to the curation of bona fide political agency. If people are not free to engage organically with political questions, then how can you possibly say their will is manifest as government? "Protecting the revolution" is not a justification for denying people agency. And honest readers of history will find much irony in Lenin's obsession with justifying his own Bolshevik coup as such.

This is an extremely simple idea, but Orthodox Marxist are so blinded by their hatred for all things western (because they are campists relitigating the cold war) that they miss the forest for the trees. For socialism to be the true expression of the people, the people must first be free.

[-] bastion@feddit.nl 2 points 11 months ago
[-] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 0 points 11 months ago

Can we just not do either? I literally don't care to read about how you think the world is bad on a community about onions

[-] Globulart@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago
this post was submitted on 23 Nov 2023
210 points (69.0% liked)

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