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this post was submitted on 17 Nov 2023
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Consuming meat is natural and vital for us as species.
Natural yes, vital no, as made perfectly evident by the fact vegetarians and vegans aren't wasting away in the streets.
There are a lot of stories about malnourished vegans and even about vegans' kids, malnourished to death.
There are similarly many stories of omnivores who have died of malnourishment. Is this a valid case against meat eating?
Similarly many stories of omnivores, who have died of malnourishment specifically because of their omnivorous diet, as vegans did?
A person who exclusively eats fruit is technically adhering to a vegan diet. A person who exclusively eats kraft singles is technically adhering to an omnivorous diet. There are wrong ways to do both.
The point I was trying to make with my earlier comment is that the people wasting away don't represent the average vegan/vegetarian. They are outliers who make for good headlines.
That's a "no true scotsman" fallacy.
Call it whatever you prefer. The fact is there are millions of vegans and vegetarians in the world today who are very much alive.
That's not what no true Scotsman is. They aren't saying fruitarian and breatharians aren't real vegans, they're saying that those are not representative of veganism as a concept.
But also, one can argue that they're not vegans, because "possible and practicable" are part of the definition of veganism
And what's the difference in the context of the fallacy?
The difference is that there's no ad-hoc justification for excluding people who don't understand nutrition from the umbrella term of veganism. They aren't excluding them, they're saying that those people make up a tiny, tiny minority and the population as a whole shouldn't be equated to them.
That being said, I would make the argument that they aren't real vegans in the first place, because like I said, "possible" and "practicable" are part of the definition. That isn't ad-hoc, that's just an established definition of what "vegan" means. It's like saying someone who believes in a god isn't an atheist. That's not a no true Scotsman fallacy, it's just a statement of fact.
"cOnSuMiNg MeAt Is nAtUrAl"
Setting aside the inherent ethnocentrism of this statement, which, in classic Western fashion, completely bulldozes the many cultures that have thrived on entirely plant-based diets for centuries, possibly millennia...
This is still a shit argument, when you realize that EVERYTHING humanity does aims to separate ourselves from "nature," and move beyond what is "natural."
If we actually lived according to nature, we wouldn't have plastics, cell phones, cars, airplanes, air conditioning, and all the other myriad things that make our soft squishy lives easier.
But you keep chowing down on your "aLl-NaTuRaL" chicken wings and Mountain Dew, you fucking neanderthal.
You are giving mixed signals. Is separating ourselves from nature good or bad?
Stop clowning around, please.
Though I have opinions, I will not take the bait, as it is not relevant to my point whether humans distancing themselves from nature is "good" or "bad."
I think my signal is pretty clear - Your "it's natural" argument fails entirely when one picks and chooses the aspects of human life to which they apply it.
As an example - you wake up in your climate controlled house, put on your synthetic fiber clothing, jump into your Ford F150 Pickup Truck, Drive to a gas station, pick up a mountain dew in a plastic bottle, and buy a slice of pizza - in all that context, your big brained argument is that it is more natural for that pizza to have animal pepperoni and dairy cheese, vs plant-based alternatives.
Tell me, who is the clown in this situation?
It's you. You're the clown.
Our body still is natural by all means. And omnivorous diet is natural to our body.
Natural, sure. Vital? Something like 350,000,000 Indians would like a word with you
They have chicken.
I don't think they do, considering they're vegetarian. Around 24% of the country consider themselves vegetarian, while about 8% consider themselves pescatarian (the ones that eat birds and fish)
And the rest 68%?
How on earth could they be relevant to the point of whether meat is necessary for our survival?