127
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 15 Jul 2023
127 points (97.7% liked)
Asklemmy
43394 readers
1464 users here now
A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions
If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!
- Open-ended question
- Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
- Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
- Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
- An actual topic of discussion
Looking for support?
Looking for a community?
- Lemmyverse: community search
- sub.rehab: maps old subreddits to fediverse options, marks official as such
- !lemmy411@lemmy.ca: a community for finding communities
~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
But like a weird mix of capitalism and communism where on the one hand everything is shared and centrally controlled and on the other hand nobody’s starving.
I guess they really did go where no one had gone before.
https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP85M00363R000601440024-5.pdf
https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/DOC_0000498133.pdf
CIA's own declassified documents a good enough source for you?
I also contest the "nobody's starving" point you seem to be making. A hundred million people die every 5 years to starvation under capitalism.
Can you source that 20 million per year starvation under capitalism thing?
This is the same CIA that was putting people in boxes full of bugs to get information out of them?
No some report on adequate calories in the 80s and 90s doesn’t convince me that people don’t starve under communism. If the CIA itself were sitting down with me to discuss this, I’d want to see more than these two documents.
I misspoke, it's not 20million it's 9million for specifically hunger. The 20million figure I used here comes from adding in clean water and curable disease. It's still an extremely basic and charitable figure for the extremely preventable deaths that occur under capitalism.
If the CIA's own declassified internal documents refuting the cold war propaganda that you are spouting isn't enough for you then nothing ever will be. You're repeating the cold war propaganda line, I'm showing you that the CIA's own documents at the time refute it, because obviously internally you can't lie to yourselves about the matter even if you are doing propaganda publicly about it. You don't want to acknowledge or absorb it because it would mean having to self-crit and readjust an ideological position you're committed to.
Impressive, they just horse-shoed their own confirmation bias. It’s like shooting a rubber band back at your face. Most impressive.
This is not uncommon unfortunately. It's actually gotten significantly worse in the last 5 years or so, like 15 years ago it was just taken as fact by literally everybody that pretty much everything in the cold war was bullshit. But with the rising anti-russia sentiment and obviously the war it's like literally everything from that period is now just taken as fact. It's wild. Even the extremely easy to disprove stuff like this.
EDIT: I feel like this user is a bot given how it's gone and responded so many times below and then mixed up the conversations elsewhere.
Not to get all conspiratorial, but do you think they start wars to shape narrative? Like, Remember the Cold War? That was great!
I think the nationalist brainworms of americans do most of the heavy lifting, combined with the fact liberals are completely without principles. It's not dissimilar to how they'll happily use homophobia to attack Republicans or whoever the current international villain is simply because "they're bad so it's ok". This same lack of principles applies to history too, which they will rewrite to suit their nationalist goals at any time with no principles or scruples. The core issue is nationalism. Anyone you can deprogram and change into an internationalist stops all of this.
Okay, hang with me here, I’m gonna try it. Everyone thinks corporations run America. But that’s a cut-out, the military industrial complex only allows corporations to operate. The military is basically a planned economy/ socialism. Therefore, America is actually Socialist!
For a beautiful second, I was a Liberal… and…. It’s gone.