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this post was submitted on 17 Nov 2023
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The whole argument about whether they are or aren't in any given spot is moot. Israel isn't differentiating between Hamas and civilians, and none of this is an actual defensive operation.
If Netanyahu wanted to actually protect Israelis, the obvious ways to do so are to:
It's just maddening how we get focused on the trees instead of the forest: Netanyahu has been an authoritarian war criminal for decades, and under his control this situation will never lead to peace or security, because that's never been the goal.
and how do you get the hostages back and launch a counteroffensive because Hamas broke the ceasefire that was in place?
I don't understand what you're asking. Can you rephrase it?
Israel's extreme response is because Hamas killed roughly one thousand innocent lives and also captured civilian and military hostages. How do you get them back while responding to the attack?
You pick up the phone and negotiate a hostage exchange.
You say, meet us at this spot tomorrow with 10 of the oldest and youngest hostages you've got and we'll do the same. If it goes well, we'll talk about doing another exchange the next day.
That's what Hamas wants. That's what they've usually taken and returned hostages for. Hamas released two hostages so far in the weeks this has been going on. How come someone negotiated for 2 and then stopped there?
Hamas:
“No thanks. We want a war that maximizes civilian deaths for the purpose of creating a larger conflict in the region so as to bring support to the eradication of the Zionist State.”
What's crazy about this is that regardless of whether we agree on whether Hamas would participate in a hostage exchange, you're still acknowledging that the current response benefits them, and risks a spiral of violence that draws in the whole region or world.
I believe Hamas would agree to a small hostage exchange in a slow and drawn out manner. In the past, Israel literally used an exchange rate of 1000-1 for prisoner swaps. Hamas knows the value of hostages and won’t settle for anything close to proportional swaps. They also need to retain the hostages in order to prolong the conflict and appeal to sympathetic neighboring countries for assistance.
Netanyahu and Hamas both benefit from open conflict and neither believe in a two state solution. It’s a recipe for disaster. The best case scenario is that Israel manages to cripple Hamas, Netanyahu is removed from office, and then a new Israeli Government helps to rebuild Gaza. The worst case scenario is a broad conflict in the middle-east with nuclear weapons in the mix.
Netanyahu:
“Oh good, I wanted a reason to use the military.”
You’re both right.
Nobody is the good guy here.
And Israeli response to the massacre?
After the hostages are returned on both sides, announce a resumption of the peace process coupled with an order to arrest, try, and convict the masterminds behind the attack of war crimes.
Then end the system of apartheid. Dismantle the cruel and barbaric conditions that are deliberately foisted on these people in abject poverty that offer them nothing more appealing than a satisfying death. There is already a ruthlessly cruel system of doling out rights selectively in the form of movement and work permits. Expand it to eventually provide the highest degree of permissions to everyone who passes a basic background check while new leaders on both sides negotiate a permanent peace agreement on how to cohabitate on the land.
All of this should've happened decades ago, but the next best time is now.
By trading them in for Palestinian kids and women rotting away in Israeli jails.
Also, reform the judiciary branch so Palestinians aren't judged by 1 Israeli judge with a conviction rate of 98%. Maybe a council of three judges: Israeli, Palestinian and Christian. And throw an atheist in there too.
Counteroffensive Israel fucked up that plan the minute they also went bloodlust and revenge massacre. It's too late now with so many killed. You can expect a second Hamas with a different name to attack Israel within 15/20ish years max. Unless you change.
Normally cooler heads should have prevailed but they're stuck with Netanyahu.
You should have enforced your borders, so nothing gets in. At the same time, you should have tightened and upped diplomatic relations with everyone else in the region instead of alienating and threatening them. Chances were, they would have helped you get the Hamas military wing labeled as terrorists in the region and made no place safe for them. No one wants to see dead civilians. (Granted this doesn't count for Hezbollah).
Negotiating a deal for the hostage exchanges and knowing Hamas, it would have taken months or years maybe, but most of them would have made it out alive. And this will give you the time you'll need.
Use your intelligence services to get every name and face of the Hamas that killed civilians.Once your list is complete, then you start hunting them down. Just like the Mossad did with ex-nazi's. No matter how long it takes.
Make a long-term plan to get the Palestinians not on your side really, but on their OWN side. Free from Israel AND Hamas. Give them a better life, let them prosper, live their lives, raise their kids and grow old. You don't want them and they don't want you, so a 2 state is the only solution. With each country having its own governance.
Once people value their lives and families and have something to live for, they won't be sucked into this rage, hate and hopelessness and join something that'll be just another Hamas.
Normal people don't join terrorists/freedom fighter causes, desperate people do.