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this post was submitted on 03 Nov 2023
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@galloog1 @TinyPizza If you believe Israel in any way, shape or form, you're probably horribly naive. We're talking about the same people who are actively conducting genocide against the Palestinians, on top of the apartheid regime. They already inflicted on them. Are Hamas terrorists, yes, is Israel worse? Yes
I believe Israel because I've worked with them and seen these things myself. I also know information war and Israel is bound by the constraints of a Western Democratic approach whereas Hamas is not.
One is inherently more trustworthy and you can validate it quite simply based on how quickly they lay blame. Israel checks with their force to validate information and protects it's information sources. Hamas simply immediately claims that every militant was a civilian, every explosion was an airstrike, and only walks it back when people get called out by name as dead.
Any military force is not perfect. War crimes happen in any force with Soldiers on the ground. Israel's targeting provides multiple sources of validation and checks to ensure there is a legitimate target before conducting a strike and they can take civilian considerations into account. Soldiers on the ground do not have that same level of control inherently. Hamas includes targeting civilians in their orders though so there is that.
@galloog1 https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
So you're biased, got it
Well, this is honestly hilarious. You are trying to use Israeli opposition criticism of the government of Israel attempting to help the Palistinians as proof that they were propping up Hamas. I really don't know what to say. Israel's doing what the international community is calling for is not them playing 3d chess helping Hamas.
Working through the only existing power structure in the Gaza strip to allow more work permits may have inadvertently legitimized them and allowed them to further cement their authoritarianism but it's a far cry from being the cause of them and it's flat out dishonest to suggest so. You really do take away their autonomy with this narrative.
@galloog1 You missed the part where that work was intentionally done to sabotage the creation of a sovereign Palestine. Nice thing for you to over at least get over, way to prove your bias.
Israel is literally responsible for this entire situation
@galloog1 Also Israel doesn't check shit. As they're using air dropped bombs inside a densely packed civilian population . Every fatality, every casualty is intentional. Worse haven't seen a lot of armed dead Gaza citizens, we HAVE seen a lot of dead unarmed ones
Don't lie you'll be caught
No competant military force on earth would show pictures of their own dead militants. They control the ground. Don't be dumb.
@galloog1 Israel has plenty of assets they can use to bolster their case
Yet, nothing. Hell they're so fucking terrible that the Jenin camp they committed an atrocity in, they don't even know they got the person they were aiming for.
They literally bombed a refugee camp and did not know if they got the target or not. What the fuck?!
All of that does not make it an illegitimate target under international law. If someone shoots your friend and runs into a building and you strike that building, you cannot claim that you got that target until you see a body. That's just how assessments in a Western fires process work. It also provides more legitimacy when you do say something.
If you can come up with a more valid way to conduct assessments, by all means provide it. Israel wants to assess their targets as much as you want them to.
@galloog1 Okay, let me help you out here, if some terrorist runs into a building, you don't blow up the entire fucking building full of people. That doesn't work
I think people have a really warped view of war on the internet. That's exactly what any army on earth would do including and especially Hamas. Only the United States and Israel are known to not. Coalition partners literally think we are odd for taking civilian considerations into account as much as we do. You can find tens thousands of examples of this from the current war in Ukraine, ISIS fight, and any other going back to WWII.
I don't know what to tell you. You are just simply wrong about this. War is just bad overall. That doesn't make it a war crime. That has a pretty high burden of proof. You can run this through any military lawyer of any military. I know more than my fair share and work closely with them.
@galloog1 No, I've actually been to war, twice. So I'm good. Israel isn't taking civilians into consideration, they're racking up the body count by intentionally using the wrong weapons in a civilian populace.
Oh and that's in ADDITION to cutting off water, fuel, and medical supplies to the CIVILIANS
SO you're trying to bullshit people who now know that's what you're trying to do.
Israel is LITERALLY making more "terrorists" than they're killing with their disproportionate use of force