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Human rights investigators raise new questions on Gaza hospital explosion
(www.channel4.com)
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this post was submitted on 20 Oct 2023
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This still leaves two major questions unanswered; if it was Israel, why did they use so much smaller bomb than they usually do and why did they target the parking lot? I've only seen them drop JDAMs from planes and not use traditional artillery. Someone can correct me on this if I'm wrong.
I'm also wondering wether they considered the fact that as the videos seems to show a malfunctioning rocket falling back to Gaza, maybe the direction of the impact could be explained by that the rocket effectively turned around mid flight.
The only sensible explanation for this being Israeli rocket would be that it's a rogue anti-air missile from iron dome that was trying to intercept these rockets but failed and for some reason didn't self-destruct before hitting the ground.
Al Jazeera had been live streaming and live reporting the entire thing, and there are multiple angles and phone videos from them and other sources that show the entire incident, from the rocket barrage, to the booster failure, to the hospital explosion.
The Associated Press has the complete analysis to your question, including the videos I mentioned, posted yesterday.
Alot of the videos in there were confirmed 8 hours after the incident, this is the first mainstream media outlet that put it all together.
The AP was one of the first to report what the Gaza Health Ministry said, "Israel strikes hospital, killing 500", then edited their article 3 times in 1 hour, with new titles and recharacterizing the report as "they said" to try and cover the increasing uncertainty of the situation. Along with the casualty number dropping. Now some might say "But any death at all is bad, 50 or 500!". That's true, it's still really tragic, but it's also a 90% error, which is a disaster for journalism.
The article covers the JDAM theories, the Israel warned them, the Hamas announcing their launching rockets a little after the incident. All things that would make the situation more murky.
I admit I do sound like I'm defending Israel with this. This particular event is a flashpoint for me personally since I'm heavily invested in the state of journalism in an age where the flood of information can overwhelm news and lead to innaccuracies.
The rocket turning around video is a different video from last year.
Unfortunately I got banned from World News on lemmy.ml because posting this was "War Crime Denial" apparently.
Got banned from there for the same reason. I more or less independently came to the same conclusion as most news outlets later on; while there still remains a lot of unanswered questions about this - nothing, however, seems to indicate it was a deliberate Israeli airstrike.
It could be one of the munitions that Israel uses for their Roof knockingbullshit.
I don't think so. This was powerful enough to wreck the parking lot after all.
I'm curious to hear why you think roof knocking is bullshit?
Deliberately targeting civilians is always bullshit.
I agree, but you seemed to say there, that the practice of "knocking" before the actual strike is bullshit, which I found surprising and was asking clarification for.
The knocking the IDF does is done using low yeild or dummy munitions not kindly notifying people. It's a flimsy justification for bombing civilians.
Would it be better if they did what Hamas does instead and just strike without a warning?
I find it odd that you think warning before hand so that people can evacuate is bullshit. They didn't need to do that, but they still go thru the effort to minimize civilian casualties.
Because hitting something with a small munition isn't a warning. It's just bombing civilians. Just because it's a small vldevice doesn't make it good or civilised, it's just bombing civilians.
You don't seem very keen on answering the question.
Would it be better if they didn't knock, and instead just did what Hamas does, and bomb the civilians without a warning?
I think we've established here, that not dropping bombs onto civilian population in the first place would be optimal, but since both sides are going to do it anyways and aren't going to stop, then which way is likely to lead to less collateral damage; giving a warning before hand or not warning at all? What do you think it tells about Israel that they're willing to knock first? Do you think Hamas would do that if they had the capability?
My answer to the question is that knocking isn't a warning. It's just bombing civilians. They can claim that using smaller bombs is somehow nicer but at the end of the day they're still bombing people and then they're kind enough to follow that up with bigger bombs. I don't have to be pragmatic and accept that there's going to be some bombing of civilians or indeed any bombing or attacks on anyone from any side in any conflict. You don't have to tolerate the actions of bastards doing bastard things.
Why are you criticizing Israel for the one half decent thing they're doing which is letting people know before hand that this building is going to get bombed so you better get the hell out? That's such an odd thing to critizice them for.
How do you feel about Hamas attacking that music festival and murdering 250 civilians? I'm sure those people would've liked a warning too, don't you think?
Again: roof knocking is not a warning it is just bombing civilians. Just because you hit them first with a small bomb doesn't grant you an moral high ground or count as a warning, you're just bombing civilians. The only right thing to do is to not bomb civilians with anything at all.
It is simply engaging in the exact same terrorism that hamas participates in but they're trying to frame their terrorism as better somehow.
Hamas shoots rockets from near mosks, schools, hospitals etc. because they know that the proximity to civilians is going to deter Israel to a certain degree. Do you think they would knock first if Hamas had their military locations on the open desert? Ofcourse they wouldn't. The only reason they do so is to atleast try and minimize civilian casualties when doing airstrikes. I don't know why you keep talking as if Israel is intentionally targeting civilians when that's what they're explicitly trying to avoid from doing. It's Hamas whose intentionally targeting civilians. That's almost exclusively what they do. They fire constant barrages of unguided rockets into residential areas and they just attacked Israel targeting almost exclusively civilians including the 250 murdered at the music festival. 250 innocent, unarmed civilians shot to death like animals, yet you take issue with the fact that Israel dares to give them a warning to get the hell out first. The unlucky ones that unfortunelately get killed in these strikes is what Hamas would call "human shields". It's not an accident that they're there. Hamas not only doesn't care about Israeli civilians, they don't care about their own either.
Ofcourse the right thing to do would to not bomb civilians at all. That's what civilized people normally tend to avoid doing. There however are some groups of people that aren't so concerned about such things. Israel is not one of them. While there's a shit ton to critizice them for, focusing on the act of giving a warning before an airstrike is just nonsensical. Also, as I'm sure you already know, it's not like they just start with the roof knock. They use phones first.
I assure you Israel is targeting civilians deliberately and if they aren't they're fucking terrible shots as they've killed thousands Palestinians over the last few weeks. Israel is a colonial apartheid state that is looking to seize territory and displace Palestinian people from their homes. They're following the same playbook as seen in places like their americas and Australia. Colonialism isn't civilised or nice it's just plain imperial aggression.
Israel could take all Palestinian land and kill every single Palestinian tomorrow if they wanted to. They've had this capacity for a long time yet they've decided not to use it. What do you think Hamas would do in their position?