this post was submitted on 14 Oct 2023
948 points (96.5% liked)

World News

39004 readers
421 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News !news@lemmy.world

Politics !politics@lemmy.world

World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Australians have resoundingly rejected a proposal to recognise Aboriginal people in its constitution and establish a body to advise parliament on Indigenous issues.

Saturday’s voice to parliament referendum failed, with the defeat clear shortly after polls closed.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] MuThyme@lemmy.world 57 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Nothing.

The no and yes sides to a referendum prepare an informational pamphlet that everyone receives but there's absolutely no requirement that any of it be truthful, so the opposition just openly lied until the whole thing died.

Actual information was obscured, fear mongering was rampant, the voice was harmless at worst, but could have been the spark that changed Australia for the better.

[–] SuperJetShoes@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Thank you. But I'm still not sure I get it. Could you maybe give an example of what kind of lie or fear mongering would make people want to say:

"No, I don't want the constitution to recognise that there were an indigenous people here before us."

That seems like an unarguable fact, isn't it?

I'm sorry, I don't mean to put you on the spot but since you were kind enough to take the time to give an overview, it makes me hungry for more detail!

[–] Inductor@feddit.de 38 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The referendum was (if I understand it correctly) about adding an advisory body of indigenous people to parliament. This wouldn't have given them any power to make decisions, only to advise parliament on things.

The No Campaign just straight up lied to people saying it would let them write laws, take away your land, etc..

[–] SuperJetShoes@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

I see, thank you (and to everyone else who responded).

[–] snoopen@lemmy.world 30 points 1 year ago

First off to be precise, this was a ”proposal to recognise Aboriginal people in its constitution and establish a body to advise parliament on Indigenous issues".

Some examples of what I think were sadly effective for the no campaign:

"This will allow indigenous peoples to reclaim your land"

"It will only further divide our nation"

"We don't know how this might be misused"

These all play on peoples fear. On the other hand some indigenous peoples also were campaigning for a no vote, primarily because they thought it wasn't strong enough.

This gave voters a lot of reasons to hide behind while voting no.

And all this was not helped by a rather poor yes campaign that barely did anything to address misconceptions.

[–] AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-07-19/fact-check-yes-no-campaign-pamphlets-aec/102614710

There's the bare bones of the thing. The yes side had the exact same grasp of messaging that the Democrats in the US do. Which is to say none.

[–] PersonalDevKit@aussie.zone 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Amazing this was posted 4 days after the in person voting..... how is an Aussie meant to make an informed choice when the data comes after the voting day?

[–] Welt@lazysoci.al 8 points 1 year ago

The referendum was yesterday. We have early access polling, access to which has increased since the pandemic, but most people still typically vote on the election day, as I did, which was yesterday - so an article from 19 July is plenty of notice for most people.

[–] shrodes@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

Not sure what you mean, the linked article was from months ago and the in person vote was yesterday. People had plenty of time to decide to make an informed choice and many decided not to.

[–] naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 year ago

by reading literally anything or listening to one of the dozens of speeches on the topic.

[–] CalamityJoe@aussie.zone 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Arguments included:

"If you don't know, say no" Incredibly reductionist, could be used to justify any position, but a very effective soundbite. It's only when you extrapolate it, that you realise the issues. Imagine if someone told you "If you don't know whether a girl/boy will say yes to you, never ask them out on a date". Uncertainty is an inherent part of most of human nature. A lot less humans would be born if no one had the presence of mind to find out more about whether a person liked them, or just took a gamble and asked for a date.

"This will allow aboriginals to claim and take your land" Because Australia was declared "terra nullus" on 'discovery', and therefore regarded as uninhabited under English law, colonisers basically took and claimed all the land and dispossesed the Native Australians. And ever since, there's been a resistance to recognising prior ownership and use by native Australians, because that might threaten current ownership of land. No one wants land and property they own to be arbitrarily taken away from them with no recompense (ironic, yes?), so it's very easy to create fear in current landowning/propertyowning Australians by saying increased recognition of indigenous Australians in any form could have their land taken from them and given back to indigenous Australians.

"This will be a 3rd chamber of parliament" There are currently two houses of Parliament of government, in which candidates are voted and elected by a majority of their constituents. The houses form the core mechanics of how laws are created, debated and enacted. By portraying the proposed advisory body as a 3rd legislative body on par with the 2 existing houses, and pointing out the body was to be formed from indigenous Australians, the no campaign capitalised on fears of changing our entire political system, and the false impression of giving indigenous Australians incredibly disproportionste and unfair weighting within the political system.

"Enshrining a specific 'political' body made up of only indigenous Australians in the constitution makes us unequal, because they don't do that for other Australians". This one tries to capitalise on feelings of equality, and therefore fairness. Because I don't get X, they shouldn't have X. And neatly creates the assumption that the status quo is equal, so why change it. Ignoring that indigenous Australians are a very small percent of population, and therefore less than 5% or so of the voting population, so unlikely to ever form an effective voting bloc or have their needs and desires reflected in mainstream politics like the average Australian might. Also, the statistics for quality of life are extremely poor when compared to the average Australian, in terms of social and financial mobility, education, health, prison incarceration rates, birth complication rates etc. The average life expectancy of an indigenous Australian is at least 8 years lower than the average Australian. These have been persistent gaps in societal outcomes that haven't closed despite decades of government focus and money, hence trying something new, like the Voice.

"It won't do anything, so there's no point creating it" The argument was that this body has no executive powers, and can only talk 'at' the government, and there's no obligation in the current wording in the referendum, that the government even needs to listen. So it won't achieve anything at all, it will be useless and ineffective.

"It does too much" The argument was that it was too powerful, and would put too much unequal power in the hands of indigenous Australians, and that it would therefore be unfair and unequal. That it would allow indigenous Australians to create laws, change them, create treaties between them and Australia, recognise indigenous land rights etc.

Lots more out there, but that's it for now from me

[–] SuperJetShoes@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

This makes sense, thank you for taking the time to explain.

[–] DessertStorms@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The problem is you're trying to rationalise racism, which isn't rational.

[–] Welt@lazysoci.al 2 points 1 year ago

The democratic result was clear. Assuming it was all about racism is so reductive that you're stultifying your own outlook by simplifying a more complex issue.

[–] Seudo@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I'd say an excuse for politics to ignore indigenous issues for another decade by placating the white masses for the next few election cycles would be a lil worse.

[–] fiat_lux@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Also generations of non-ATSI Australian children being taught total dehumanising racist bullshit, and never being corrected largely because the genocide was very successful.

A society can't just start trying to correct some of the history taught to children over the last few years, and then be surprised by the outcome of a referendum when success relies on the judgement of people who grew up on the old lies. Correcting the record for the next generation is necessary, but it doesn't fix the existing damage the lies have done and continue to do.

I don't know what Labor was thinking when they took this path. From the outside it looks like a huge unforced strategic failure.

Shit's fucked and there are no simple solutions and I hate it.

[–] Welt@lazysoci.al 1 points 1 year ago

Our history is shameful but also our efforts to redress past wrongs recurrent and inspiring. Negativity about a well-intentioned referendum helps nobody. I'll note that this was driven by the Labor Party, not by Indigenous Australians, who don't trust the good intentions of politicians who carried out policies like the Stolen Generations on behalf of the poor unfortunate blacks of the time. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.