cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/53714894
cope, shitlibs
this post was submitted on 07 Oct 2026
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Thanks for you eloquent reply.
You might be on to something there, mainly that while i stil very much respect Marx and the work he did, i have found myself deviating from his philosophies as i got more left on the political spectrum.
For example the dictatorship of the proletariat never sat right with me. Power in my observation always corrupts, regardless of who holds it.
I instead find myself much more in agreement with Kropotkin. Its quite telling that while Kropotkin did get a preferable treatment being somewhat on friendly terms with Lenin his fellow anarchist got prosecuted under Bolshevik rule. Which to me sounds like state cencorship, oppresion of individual freedom.
Needless to say i would have been prosecuted the same. So i while i do respect marx for his theory i firmly oppose Lenin his practical execution.
Extending the thoughts of my previous comment, the state can only ever be the dictatorship of a given class. In classless society, there is no class to be dictator, and thus there is no basis for the state. The state exists for class supremacy. The dictatorship of the proletariat is simply a democratic system where the working class controls all political power, and uses the state against those that would oppose the interests of the working class (typically the owning class, but also class traitors).
The notion that "power corrupts" isn't actually how administrative positions function in reality. Power isn't some supernatural force that people turn metaphysically evil by. Administrative positions allow people levers, and these levers can be twisted in their own favor. At the same time, administration is a necessity for large-scale production and distribution, the kind necessary to achive classless society, meet the needs of everyone, expand everyone's freedoms, and achieve scientific, collective planned goals. Keeping the problems that can come from manipulating these levers in check is a problem of form of organization, not a challenge to the necessity of these positions.
I used to be an anarchist, but understanding scientific socialism as presented by Marx and Engels leads me to accept Marxism-Leninism as fundamentally correct. The vanguard path to revolution as is key to Leninism is merely an advance in the strategy of establishing a dictatorship of the proletariat, not a change in what the dictatorship of the proletariat looks like.
I understand the theory you are coming from but with all respect reading your comment made me shiver. “State supremacy” most of all.
I do not trust any individual to control levers that they can adjust in their own favour or ideals, especialy not the levers that can dictate who is and who is not a class traitor. It does not take a supernatural force to start punishing anyone critical of the leadership as traitors and have others agreeing against their interests out of fear of being branded a traitor.
In an ideal world i think no state should exist at all, more realistically it should be as decentralised as can be keeping organisational powers as local as can be with no offices one individual can hold.
I do find myself fortunatly priviledged to live in the age of internet communication. Therefor i can envision such decentralized system where all individuals can join and attend to organize shared interests.
Administration and measurements can be provider transparantly for all to read like open source projects. Good ideas can spread organicly and be Imitated by any people to fit their own usecase.
Without modern tools it seems more then logical to have a centralized administration to coordinate the many parts of a society. But we have the means to evolve past needing such.
Collectivization and working class supremacy do not have to conflict with having spread-out power. Every socialist state is made up of local and central government cells, where local, regional, provincial cells take care of most matters in their jurisdiction and a central one to manage the affairs pertaining to all of society. The idea of a single central unit dominating all of society sounds scary, but it's also not how socialism works in theory or practice.
As productive forces expand and get more complex, so too does the necessity for expanding administration. It can sometimes be lowered, but only temporarily. Just because you can envision a society does not make it actually achievable, this is a huge problem early socialist thinkers like Robert Owen ran into, called "Utopian socialists." Marx and Engels advanced beyond them by developing historical materialism and the scientific approach to socialism, which is why shortly after their deaths a string of socialist revolutions actually succeeded.
but... for the state to not exist that would require the elimination of class, which no socialism has ever been able to achieve immediately. Without a state there would be no way to enforce the abolition of private property, defend your pocket of socialism against your own bourgeoisie or a counterrevolution funded by a foreign imperialist bourgeoisie. I understand that all states commit excesses of violence and oppression and you feel rightly repulsed by that, but to get to a point where abolishing the state is possible, workers have to achieve power over most of the world, and the world is very divided by imperialism.
"Imperfect" state socialism is the only viable option when a revolution only succeeds in a portion of the world and capitalism is still the dominant, world-spanning mode of production.
I do have some ideas on how to get there without the need of a violent revolution.
I have already made somd attempts in the past to write a full book to properly explain myself here but in gist (also i am super tired)
The idea is to create a template for a new analogous economy that views ownership and the concept of money in a completely different way and presents every single data point open to everyone, yet can technically exist to be fully compatible within todays capitalist economy. This analogue system would have its own logic of logistics to manage production and distribution which at first you need to be working within the new system to get acces towards.
I believe my concept has some distinct. advantages that could make it attractive for non profit startups and organisations especially if they network with other organisations making the analogus economy bigger. It would also have huge advantages for a state to dissolve the problem of state debt. And in earnest the easiest path is a state voluntary backing early organisations in this system but its not required. And a state that does would eventually disolve much of its own power by rendering it reasonably useless.
As these decentralized networks grow it will make more and more sense to join the system, eventually replacing the one we have now and render traditional money but a wortless statistic with no more executive power then a statistical debt.
I really hope to write that book someday, a social media discussion cant really do it justice.
Edit: A nice mechanic of my concept is that the bigger the profit marge of todays bussinesses the more economocly viable it becomes for citizens to try organise the new non profit system without state assistance.
"my concept"
Okay, it's just slop. I wasted my god damn time, there was no point in arguing with this person. Go develop your own diy special snowflake political alignment, then.
"It would also have huge advantages for a state to dissolve the problem of state debt."
Have you heard of the Dunning Kruger effect? Well, you're on the peak of Mt. Stupid and set up camp there. Now your brain is dying from the lack of oxygen.
Uhm lol. Who hurt you today?
God forbid someone thinks about things and writes down their ideas. Sorry for sounding a little too exited to share some parts of it when it fits the context. I have a tendency to get passionate about something when i am motivated enough.
I am fine if nobody reads it, doesnt change annything for me. Putting ideas out there just seems like the least i can do. I wish more people did, normalize trying to better society and some day we might move forward and if 0.0000000001% is vaglue inspired by a footnote i wrote 200 years earlier that is a bigger legacy then i could hope for.
And if with slop you mean ai, no, my ideas are way older then that.