1104
you don't need to do. just be
(slrpnk.net)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 09 Oct 2023
1104 points (91.3% liked)
solarpunk memes
2785 readers
375 users here now
For when you need a laugh!
The definition of a "meme" here is intentionally pretty loose. Images, screenshots, and the like are welcome!
But, keep it lighthearted and/or within our server's ideals.
Posts and comments that are hateful, trolling, inciting, and/or overly negative will be removed at the moderators' discretion.
Please follow all slrpnk.net rules and community guidelines
Have fun!
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
Some indigenous cultures never invented writing and are hunter gathers. They don't have time to engage in any sort of philosophy. There's no basis for them to even describe these ideas.
It's not better. It's not different. It's underdeveloped.
I think it’s weird how we use terms like indigenous culture. Western culture is indigenous to the west.
It’s weird how the whole noble savage myth just keeps on trucking
Frankly if argue that grouping all the different varied cultures under the simple term "western culture" is equally reductive and unproductive. There is no single "Western Culture" just as there's no single "indigenous culture"
And that is fair and correct.
White savior complex is alive and well
So I guess the white savior can stop saving, the noble savage can stop being noble and we can all chill, just like the meme suggests.
"Western culture" isn't even universal in Europe. Sami and several peoples around Russia are quite distinct from anything rooted in the Roman empire. Many of them don't subscribe to any of the Abrahamic faiths, while others only converted to Christianity in the last few hundred years.
That’s a group I don’t know much about. I only heard about them more recently.
Huh guess my culture doesn't exist I'll be sure to tell everyone on the reservation.
Don't spread bad history. You have no idea what you're talking about.
Okay, by that reasoning then the indigenous cultures of Australia, the Americas, the Caribbean, Pacific islands, etc were destroyed by European empires/colonization and thus also don't exist anymore.
You give the Romans way too much credit. They didn't even manage to export their style of music and had their tradition supplanted by the rest of Europe: Previously they were part of the Mediterranean tradition (which nowadays people recognise as oriental, definitely a misnomer), have a listen. Nowadays they have just as much as an allergy to flourishes as much of the rest of the continent (modulo Greece but also Spain, also at least parts of the Balkan)
...and this is just to serve as an example.
That's definitely one of the opinions of all time.
Is it underdeveloped though? They're certainly not the ones driving us toward the 6th mass extinction and potentially an uninhabitable earth (for humans)
Yes it's undeveloped
That's not what you said, you said underdeveloped, two very different things.
Okay sorry I think it's underdeveloped and undeveloped. Primitive, lesser, inferior, etc.
Ah okay, so you're bigoted, at least you admit it.
Yes, I admit it. I'm not going to play intellectually dishonest games with you or pretend I'm something I'm not.
That's good because I think you're a shitty excuse for a human being.
We are all flawed. Humans are inherently flawed creatures. I'm sorry you feel like this is a personal attack on you.
That's a convenient excuse for your racism. Fuck off, baseless, revisionist racist.
I'm just reading this and am a bit confused. The dude might be racist or whatever... idk, but wouldn't a culture that never developed written language be fairly considered "underdeveloped" in modern times?
Just a weird thread that turned to name calling super fast, and I'm not sure where that concept is wrong. Unless you believe humanity would be better developed if it devolved backwards to a point that written language didn't exist?
No, because it is not your job, unless you are an expert in the field, to judge whether and how a culture is "developed", whatever that means.
I am just someone on the Internet, same as you. My expertise can be whatever I tell you, and is as important as whatever you want to claim as you expertise. Which is to say, it's not important at all. I could be lying and so could you. Doesn't mean we cant discuss things
But I'm pretty sure written language is a huge milestone in cultural development that most professionals would agree with. It is a huge advancement in almost all areas of civilization like the medicinal, cultural and technological fields. Hell, it literally changed our brains.
So the question is more, do you believe humanity was actually better before we made that giant leap? Because creating a written language fits perfectly into the definition of development.
My guess is that it'd be an extremely rare case that a culture was "better" before it came up with a written language. They just didn't have to capability of destruction that 8 billion people to.
You are judging indigenous cultures through a capitalist lens. It's just not going to look like any of the indigenous people were successful.
Native Americans had written languages. They had their own philosophies (men can not "own" land). On the other side of the coin they had wars and genocides but just as the genieva convention exists today they had agreements on how to conduct those things.
But it's so much easier saying the brown people are savages.
Funny how someone mentions "some indigenous cultures never invented writing and are hunter gathers" and you immediately thought "brown people". There were indigenous cultures in Europe that never invented writing and were hunter gatherers, too.
Imagine behaving like this with the one life you have
Thinking about the language needed to express philosophical ideas and how language can impact your ability to form complex arguments is probably not the best use of my time. It's pretty interesting though and I enjoy it so it's not exactly a waste.
I bet you're an authority on things that are underdeveloped...
I like little boobs
Thanks! Yeah I see a lot of people acting like impoverished tribal cultures are as cultured and complex as ancient and beautiful cultures like the middle east, Persia, China, Greece, etc. It's simply not true.
wooooosh
Their validity, or even their level of quality as a culture, is not necessarily measured by their ability to invent writing. We are not automatically better than them just because of that, and we certainly don't have the right to pass them off as savages.
They did. Columbus made contact with a very sophisticated culture that was soon wiped out by disease, and effectively entered a dark age from which it never recovered.
We normally divide human philosophy into Western and Eastern types. There's some evidence that on the American continents, there was a third independently developed branch of philosophy. It was all but lost, with only oral retellings remaining.
Spoken like a true colonist.
Wow, least racist comment I have seen. Bravo.
Read up on Boasian anthropology and it states that no cultures are inherently better or worse than another. How is the culture of Christian Europeans killing and enslaving hunter gatherers, who haven't made written records, better? Many oral records also turned out to be just as accurate, provided they have been corroborated by scientific evidence. Many tribes have knowledge and wisdom unknown or unthought of by arrogant civilised and pampered individuals. An American Christian missionary was de-converted when a Praha tribe member from Brazil asked him if he had seen Jesus. When he replied "no", the tribe member quipped why would he believe Jesus is god if the missionary had not even seen him? The tribe's philosophy live in the moment, unlike the Western society always thinking of the future and past, striving for status symbol and material wealth. The Praha tribe may not have running water or huge houses, but they live their life carefree.
You think playing Civilizations game with its oversimplified digirtal cartoon tech tree makes you an expert on anthropology to judge others. No, it just makes you a donkey's cunt for doing so.
Ok, I disagree. Thanks Franz Boas.
The Western capitalist and individualistic value of material consumption is totally not destroying the collective humanity by the result of environmental destruction in pursuit of profit. A totally superior culture indeed. Amirite?
Yea fr, the only species that can even entertain the idea of "just being" are humans, it's not part of the natural world whatsoever, it also comes at the expense of other humans who are actually supporting the society.
What...
I am quite confused on the people here on lemmy. On the one hand, the consensus is 'capitalism bad' (presumably because people work themselves to death with little to show for it). On the other hand, this post seems to be somewhat populated by people that are against the whole idea of 'just being' vs 'doing'. So, what would one conclude from this?
I hate capitalism but I do feel like people get carried away blaming everything bad on capitalism, slavery and authoritarianism were present in pretty much all the cultures around before capitalism even existed and the indigenous cultures of pretty much everywhere had class and caste systems often based on religious power which itself was based on violence.
It's so reductive to say 'oh these people weren't building factories so their lives were just sitting around in the sun doing whatever makes them happy' but life in a tribe was every bit as rich and complex as modern life - generally without the luxury of being able to choose your life path, certainly for women and minorities.
Capitalism and the influence it has over people creates some fucking morons?
A fine assessment, good chap.