this post was submitted on 10 Aug 2026
53 points (94.9% liked)

chat

8647 readers
80 users here now

Chat is a text only community for casual conversation, please keep shitposting to the absolute minimum. This is intended to be a separate space from c/chapotraphouse or the daily megathread. Chat does this by being a long-form community where topics will remain from day to day unlike the megathread, and it is distinct from c/chapotraphouse in that we ask you to engage in this community in a genuine way. Please keep shitposting, bits, and irony to a minimum.

As with all communities posts need to abide by the code of conduct, additionally moderators will remove any posts or comments deemed to be inappropriate.

Thank you and happy chatting!

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 

what's the end goal here Zohran. 'Socialism' (actually social democracy) but with a roving gang of armed and organized fascists that we just ignore? are we just going to kick the issue of systemic racism down the road because it's "woke 1" to even talk about, until it becomes a powder keg again? this is the actual internal DSA white chauvinism contradiction that MSM are clawing to find but they won't use it as a real wedge because it'd increase the salience of Defund again

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] purpleworm@hexbear.net 19 points 5 days ago (2 children)

It's no surprise that a meaningful amount of the response to this post is "tailism is cool, actually". I really don't know how to reach such people.

[–] starkillerfish@hexbear.net 12 points 5 days ago (2 children)

Consequences of no one actually reading what is to be done

[–] purpleworm@hexbear.net 6 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Also specifically Left-Wing Communism: an Infantile Disorder, because it gets abused and quote-mined to turn any opposition to entryism into being an "ultra" (as you can see in the comments of this very post).

[–] MayoPete@hexbear.net 1 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

What is to be done is a bad read and needs a rewrite

[–] starkillerfish@hexbear.net 3 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

https://redsails.org/witbd-rs-abridged/

Edit: I also want to criticize the sentiment of "it’s a bad read." Studying revolutionary theory is work, its analysis, its learning about the context of the work. It’s not a fun school textbook that gives you all the answers in the back.

[–] MayoPete@hexbear.net 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I say it's a bad read because I have been told over and over again on many sites that WITBD is this revelatory text that will explain, well, what is to be done, refute any other left tendency and is THE ML text.

What I got was super dry history that I couldn't follow because none of the people in the text have been revelant for 200 years. I was confronted with terms that were outdated and needed footnotes to even understand what Lenin meant with a lot of his labels. Then the big crux of the text: start an independent vanguard party. OK, neat. Big "this could have been one-page" vibes.

I was expecting a scathing takedown of everything Capitalism stands for, railing against the oligarchs and telling me exactly what should happen to the people who literally allow shit in the lettuce to cut costs! I wanted a catharsis, not another lecture!

That attitude that reading theory is supposed to be this huge task and will somehow cause a huge breakthrough for whoever reads it sounds more like religious proselytizing than a serious political movement.

[–] starkillerfish@hexbear.net 1 points 3 days ago

I say it's a bad read because I have been told over and over again on many sites that WITBD is this revelatory text that will explain, well, what is to be done, refute any other left tendency and is THE ML text.

this is of course dogmatic and incorrect stance

That attitude that reading theory is supposed to be this huge task and will somehow cause a huge breakthrough for whoever reads it sounds more like religious proselytizing than a serious political movement.

again, i think this is incorrect. i dont subscribe to this opinion. reading theory allows us to better understand the struggle for socialism, experiences of the past, recognise patterns / changes / constants. this is what the science of dialectical materialism is about.

I was expecting a scathing takedown of everything Capitalism stands for, railing against the oligarchs and telling me exactly what should happen to the people who literally allow shit in the lettuce to cut costs! I wanted a catharsis, not another lecture!

if you approach every text like its supposed to be a revelation, of course you will be frustrated. but then isnt the issue your own attitude? without revolutionary theory you will never build a revolutionary movement

Then the big crux of the text: start an independent vanguard party. OK, neat. Big "this could have been one-page" vibes.

it is not a one-pager because that is not the only point of the text. Lenin also argues against Economism / right-opportunism within the left. Recognising right-opportunism is an essential skill for a party.