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B-but both sides (lemmy.world)
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[-] VonCesaw@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Only devil's advocate in war I will ever advocate for is "what happens to the populace when their government eventually gets collapsed"

Russian government is corrupt as hell and the military is fucked, dont get me wrong, but if we get a repeat of Brazil/Korea/etc. where a 'west-friendly' dictator is installed, I would rather them be under their current gov

[-] PugJesus@kbin.social 18 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Whether a Western-backed dictator would be better or worse is hard to say. All dictators are, of course, terrible, but it's difficult to discern just how terrible each one is before they come to power. In any case, we can and should demand better of our governments than that. We may be deeply flawed democracies, but we are still democracies, and must stand in support of our ideals, not dictators, no matter how West-friendly. Fuck, at least some of the time.

[-] VonCesaw@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

From history, the dictators are never better than the alternative. USA owned West Germany hiring ex-Nazi elites to run the gov, Pinochet refining torture methods for the CIA, all of South Korea's dictators post-Korean War

[-] PugJesus@kbin.social 11 points 1 year ago

I meant some dictators are better than others, not that some dictators are better than less autocratic forms of government.

[-] JokeDeity@lemm.ee 11 points 1 year ago

Do Brazil and NK have West friendly leaders? First I've heard.

[-] VonCesaw@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago

North Korea is as it is BECAUSE of what the US did to South Korea. When your neighbor, previous countrymen get taken over by a foreign occupying force and you have no allies to protect you, you get weird and reclusive in self-defense

[-] orrk@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

what are you talking about? North Korea is literally the Chinese created Buffer state, if you want to talk about legitimacy, the state of Korea before the China/Russia backed civil war (North Korea somehow had modern Russian MIGs, and most of their army spoke only Chinese) is what because south Korea.

North Korea is an isolationist because it is a despotic dictatorship.

[-] Shalakushka@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago

It's Russia. It will be a dictator or nothing, it is their culture and has been for centuries.

[-] uis@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago

Yeah-yeah. All Russian are genetic slaves and should be sanctioned, cross border naked and only on foot, except those who have millions of stolen money in bank account are definetly not genetic slaves, but honorary citizens.

[-] Shalakushka@kbin.social 11 points 1 year ago

That's not quite what I meant, but I understand how it could be taken that way. I'm just kind of sour because they had ridiculous strongman after ridiculous strongman in the Tsars, had a genuine worker's revolt, and then squandered it on ridiculous strongman after ridiculous strongman, then that government folded only to be replaced by a ridiculous strongman. The Russian people deserve way better than that, but it sort of seems like they don't feel like better is possible. I can sympathize, Americans are similar that way, and I think Americans will elect empty suit after empty suit, because American culture is superficial in the same way that Russian culture is fatalistic about power and corruption.

[-] Deiskos@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

I personaly don't give rat's arse what happens to russians when their government collapses. They brought it onto themselves, both by being "apolitical about it all" or by supporting and cheering the government all the way back ten years ago when it was just "little green men" and "polite people".

[-] Dark_Blade@lemmy.world -2 points 1 year ago

And how about the millions who weren't okay with Putin, but were forced into silence because one person can't fight governmental tyranny? Like, I don't support Russia's invasion and I think Putin needs to pay, but do millions of Russians who had no say whatsoever (and were brainwashed for decades through expertly crafted propaganda) deserve to starve alongside their children for the actions of a monster?

If you say 'yes', then tell me if all Americans deserve to suffer the consequence of Trump's presidency when the majority didn't even vote for the guy.

[-] orrk@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Yes, because none of them stood up against Putin.

Trump didn't invade Mexico tho

[-] Dark_Blade@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

What, you expected people to stand up against a tinpot dictator who would happily torture them and their families? Would you do that?

And Trump was literally about to take the final step towards killing democracy in America. He might not have invaded Mexico during his term, but he sure was setting up the environment where he could've gotten away with it and quashed any protest against it.

[-] orrk@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

What, you expected people to stand up against a tinpot dictator who would happily torture them and their families? Would you do that?

yes. it's a family tradition after all, sometimes there ARE things worth dying for.

And Trump was literally about to take the final step towards killing democracy in America. He might not have invaded Mexico during his term, but he sure was setting up the environment where he could’ve gotten away with it and quashed any protest against it.

most of the military was not on Trumps side, it at best would have sparked a civil war, and the trump-tards aren't that great in number

this post was submitted on 30 Sep 2023
826 points (90.4% liked)

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