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Shaun is canceled :(
(hexbear.net)
https://nitter.cz/Hbomberguy/status/1705973610320404798#m
WhO is InVaDinG wHo???
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this post was submitted on 28 Sep 2023
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the_dunk_tank
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It's the dunk tank.
This is where you come to post big-brained hot takes by chuds, libs, or even fellow leftists, and tear them to itty-bitty pieces with precision dunkstrikes.
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I don't exactly want Russia's current particular brand of ideology to be spread either. I just don't see how you can look at this conflict and think either side are the "good" guys. Or how either result will be better than the other.
This is America's brand of ideology injected into them by force after the collapse of the USSR. The USA is the #1 source of reaction on Earth, spreading it far and wide with their coups and actions. They are the blackest reaction, the source of all fucking evil and the hegemonic empire. They turned Ukraine into a Nazi cesspit. I don't want America's current particular brand of fascism to KEEP SPREADING LIKE IT HAS FOR 80 YEARS
If the Russian ideology and the American ideology are the same, and Ukraine's getting one of them either way, how can you feel like there's a side that's worthy of support?
This is an extremely weird way of seeing geopolitics, as "ideology" spreading. It's very neo-con and American.
It's about destroying the NATO army of the world empire. It's that simple
Yeah it doesn't really seem like that's happening or has any chance of happening from this conflict.
The US has been losing wars since the 50s, and they're not even getting any American teenagers killed in this one.
It's already happened. Ukraine's military is decimated, they've lost 90% of their men and can't mount any further attacks. They were built up from 2014-2022 to be the largest military in Europe, they were destroyed, they were re-built with massive donations from NATO and now they have been destroyed again. NATO has no more juice to squeeze. Russia has destroyed a massive portion of NATO's munitions and have broken apart the largest military in Europe twice. Nobody else could have done this.
De-dollarization and multipolarity has already made massive strides in just the last few years, as the rest of the world moves away from the west after seeing it's actions in this conflict. America bought a few more years for itself by cannibalizing and destroying the industrial base of Europe and especially Germany, but in the long run their western bloc is breaking down and weakening. This is unlike Iraq, with those we didn't see massive moves towards de-dollarization and multipolarity. And unlike the cold war, there seems to be only 2 camps instead of 3 - the golden billion and the other 6 outside the garden walls. The westoids and restofus
I mean China could have done it easily. But this is like saying the US is done for because the South Vietnamese army crumbled.
Were there massive moves away from the USD due to the collapse of the South Vietnamese Army? Was the industrial base of Europe de-industrialized when America lost in Vietnam? No, unfortunately not. Things are moving now.
I'd say moves away from the USD have more to do with the economic moves that China is making rather than the war in Ukraine. India's new right-wing nationalist government moving away from a non-Trump US was kind of a given, too.
This stuff all seems like it could have been happening without thousands of people dying at war.
So this all started rapidly moving in February 2022 coincidentally? Right after Russia's reserves were seized and massive sanctions were imposed on the biggest resource and energy exporters on earth? India and China were backing up Russia and gave them assurances they would not sanction. This started the shift as massive amounts of cheap energy flowed into China/India while the EU began to disintegrate economically without cheap energy. This changes the global calculus, it moves everyone away from the US except for the EU. Saudi Arabia and OPEC nations were alienated by sanction attempts by the EU to control gas prices, and also by Russian reserves being illegally seized. This started the shift in the middle east away from Israel and towards Iran, as Saudi Arabia turned neutral and spurned Israel/The US.
Now we have an Iran-China-Russia bloc, with India and Saudi Arabia and Brazil following quietly behind, torn between them and the west. It will no longer be a US dominated world in a few short decades at this rate. Their web of global policing unraveled and contained.
And not a single Ukrainian or Russian had to be blown up for that to happen.
Russia's recognition of Luhansk and Donetsk would have likely triggered sanctions and/or firming up of alignments without a single shot being fired.
Yes, unfortunately they did because the Ukrainians broke the Minsk ceasefire 22,000 times in the days leading up to the SMO. 14,000 Ukrainians dead in Donbas before the invasion already. I'm sorry, but this is all incredibly naive. The second the Americans installed a Nazi junta into power in 2014 the war was required and inevitable.
Russia tried for 8 years to stall and negotiate and get Ukraine to fucking chill and stop the ethnic cleansing but they never did, they kept increasing aggression. They kept breaking ceasefires. The west admits now those ceasefires were purposeful lies to buy time to get more weapons to more nazis. They never had any intention of making peace, it was a project of proxy damage against Russia.
I disagree with most of your characterization of events.
Natoids tend to
Just so happens that your characterization of events is identical to Russia's.
I wouldn't trust the narrative provided by a capitalist state if they told me it was raining in the middle of a hurricane but I'm just built different I guess.
A hexbear calling another hexbear a Putin Shill. Never thought I'd see the day. Unfortunately for you,@ProxyTheAwesome@hexbear.net's characterization happens to line up with what has been demonstrated to be actually true. Once again, it turns out that reality has a material bias.
That's exactly what you're doing, though. You're trusting the narrative provided by the world hegemon, the very worst of capitalist states. And you're regurgitating that narrative for them. It's pretty gross.
Declaring that Ukraine unilaterally violated Minsk II is not a defensible position.
Yes it is
k
@ThomasMuentzner@hexbear.net
Drop the Minsk violation maps for this lib please
Yours just so happens to be a lazy one that leftists in the west seem to consistently arrive at after doing zero investigation or research. So we're at an impasse.
They're killing Nazis and Americans. That makes them the good guys by definition. DPRK and China support them. How do you look at the situation and see it as "both sides are the same" when all AES are on one side in opposition to all western imperialists on the other?
Isn't there somebody you forgot to ask?
https://chiapas-support.org/2022/03/06/there-will-be-no-scenery-after-the-battle/
Not a nation-state by their own admission, and they don't really do anything anti-imperialist or materially support any other cause
-Kim Jong Un, from one of the all time anti-imperialism MVP AES, the DPRK
You don't have to be a state to be existing socialism.
But the point is that there are socialists who share my view.
Ok, address my other point that they don't really do anything with other socialist nations or involve themselves outside their region. They are entirely disconnected from the people involved here, whereas the nations on Asia and in Europe are not. It's easier to get idealist and both-sides the further away you are from the nazis
I'm far as fuck from Ukraine so why would I pick a side either?
Do you live in a NATO nation or the US? You need to be opposing your own nation's involvement and acting as a fifth column.
Opposing my nation's involvement (which I do) is different than rooting for Russia.
What does that opposition entail then?
The same as yours: I post online.
How so? You're a traitor to NATO and russian bot according to libs then right? You're on our side already if you do that, so just sit back and enjoy the party and crack open a cold Z
People's incorrect interpretation of my position doesn't cause me to adopt that misunderstood position out of spite.
And besides, this is Hexbear, not reddit. I thought (obviously incorrectly) I'd be able to have a take against the grain without being called either a Putin bot or a Nazi, but apparently not, as I've been called a Nazi several times already.
lmao motherfucker you're the one who started out by accusing everyone of uncritical support for Russian capitalism, don't play that "I'm just smal victim asking questions" bullshit
Don't want to be called a nazis, then don't play bothsidism for nazis and don't glorify your ignorance about a conflict that's been waging for nine years now
The position isn't spite, it's revolutionary defeatism.
Read Lenin :)
Lenin, widely known for being the most vocal patriot of the Central Powers and Kautsky's number one fan
And yet here you imply that theyre the same. Curious!
huh?
Out of curiosity, do you think it was acceptable for leftists to give critical verbal support to Britain and France in 1939 in their fight against Nazi Germany?
I think that was absolutely correct, but other people here are telling me Lenin says the correct position is to always root for your imperial nation to lose no matter what because it will bring about communism.