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this post was submitted on 27 Sep 2023
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the_dunk_tank
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My Ukrainian isn't so good but did he just say "Slava ukraini, Slava nazi" Holy shit lol
So this is weird, but 'slava nazi' means 'glory to the nation' in Ukrainian. Like the word 'nation' in Ukrainian is literally 'nazi'.
Taken from Yandex:
Nation : нація [ sounds like nazi ]
Nazi : нацист [ sounds like nazist ]
So the whole 'idea of the nation' thing is really a dog whistle. Nation / Nationalist /Nazi all share the same root word in Ukrainian.
I'm not a Ukrainian linguist, but that seems a touch problematic, especially for political discourse in that language.
Kinda explains a lot how this glorification of nazi ideology has been perpetuated within the culture over decades. Their form of nationalism seems to be linguistically connected to nazism.
That's really interesting, linguistics can be a fuck sometimes.
Ya, linguistically this isn't too far off from 'white' supremacy. Whiteness and the color white being a representation of purity, cleanliness, angels etc as being related to racist characteristics. Linguistics do indeed be a fuck sometimes.
“Nazi” comes from a shortening of the German “Nationalsozialistische”. The “ti” is pronounced like a “z”. So “Nazi” comes from “National” and anywhere whose “National” sounds like “Nazional” is going to sound like “Nazi” to a non-native speaker. I’m sure “national” is a common loan word in Europe. This guy is probably a Nazi not because of some linguistic connection between “national” and “Nazi” but because he’s a Ukrainian nationalist.
I just think the linguistic aspect makes any discussion of 'nationalism' almost inseparable from Nazi ideology in languages like this. It's inherently normalized because there's not a clear distinction as far as I can tell. There's not really a way to talk about nation / nationalism that doesn't carry Nazi linguistic baggage with it. I'm not saying this excuses anything, just that apologia for nazi ideology is linguistically embedded. The word for nazis is basically 'nationist'. So wanting to protect your nation puts you in the same linguistic terminology.
It's kinda like how 'Patriot' is pretty sus jingoist term in the USA. It has a technically benign meaning, but it is often used as a dog whistle. Like we all know what is meant by 'Patriot Front' for instance.
I think that nationalism has Nazi baggage because in practice it is always part of the root of Nazism if not merely a euphemism for it. That's how it always turns out in practice. That nationalism sounds like "Nazi" isn't what gives it Nazi qualities, and the reason they sound similar is because the Nazi party was technically the "National" party and their opponents gave them that name. The Nazis were the first to link euro-nationalism with Nazism and they've been married ever since. That the words themselves are semi-related is really a tangential point. It's the history that makes nationalism Nazi, the linguistics merely reflect that.
Besides, "nation" is used all the time by non-Nazis in neutral ways. I think "they're the same thing because the words sound like each other" is edging dangerously close to "umm they were National SOCIALISTS."
Obviously Ukrainian nationalists are Nazis. But this kind of semantics ain't it. Nationalism and Nazism are linked through ideology and cannot be separated because of this link (especially in Eastern Europe). Every time some Ukrainian pipes up with their totally non-Nazi "nationalist advocacy group" it's always going to be tainted by the legacy of their sacred cow Bandera. Ukrainian nationalism will always immediately trigger alarm bells in anyone with a functioning frontal lobe because Ukrainian nationalism is Nazism. The Ukrainians might not like that but they can thank their "patriotic heroes" Bandera and co. Linguistically, it's a curious etymology case study.
Sure freaking sounds like it.