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Breadtube if it didn't suck.
Post videos you genuinely enjoy and want to share, duh. Celebrate the diversity of interests shared by chapochatters by posting a deep dive into Venetian kelp farming, I dunno. Also media criticism, bite-sized versions of left-wing theory, all the stuff you expected. But I am curious about that kelp farming thing now that you mentioned it.
Low effort / spam videos might be removed, especially weeb content.
There is a cytube that you can paste videos into and watch with whoever happens to be around. It's open submission unless there's something important to commandeer it with at the time.
A weekly watch party happens every Saturday (Sunday down under), with video nominations Saturday-Monday, voting Monday-Thursday. See the pin for whatever stage it's currently in.
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This is the second time recently I've seen you proselytizing for ebikes here recently and you make very convincing arguments. Let's say I have a less than stellar opinion of the median American driver, what kind of safety gear do you run with? I poked around on reddit earlier for answers and saw everything from helmet + glasses/goggles + gloves to full on riding gear recommended.
I overdress for it and use that as thermal layering since crashing one at 32kmh is basically equivalent to falling off a one floor house. What I spend now, I make up for in lost wages and physical therapy costs that I'd incur from breaking a single bone.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C6XSHJ95 - Reinforced jacket with pads everywhere I'm likely to contact and a fleece layer. If I keep it open I'm good to ride up to 35C, fully zipped and insulated it's all I need to ride at 0C.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DY81F43X - Reinforced gloves with pads, wrist guards, and webbed fingers to keep me from splaying them out in a crash. These are all I need to 5C, with a thermal layer beneath them if colder
amazon.com/dp/B0FK4KTCSQ - Heated gloves. These allow me to ride to -20C which is my max. At that point I have two layers of pants, 4~ torso layers, a scarf, a full helmet, and a ski mask which makes it bearable.
amazon.com/dp/B094X9C28Y - Full face helmet. I use this one when it's cold and an open one (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CZXZK6BC) when it's hot. If the weather is nice and I don't plan to do any risky riding, I wear a normal half shell helmet with MIPS.
I also use a smartwatch that has accelerometer-linked fall detection (Google Pixel). If I go down, it tries to wake me for a minute before calling 911 and my emergency contact with GPS coordinates. Both android and apple options do that. It's a nice backup that also lets me dial in my heartrate to the target zone (220 minus your age, 50-80% of that) and maintain it across the ride. The only other accessory I'd want for safety is one of those Garmin traffic radars that audibly alerts you as it detects cars.
Wow this is a very detailed answer, thank you for ~~your attention in this matter!~~ sharing your valuable insight on both the setup and the reasoning. Edit: The fall detection is really neat emergency tech. I noticed you did not list any protective pants here, I assume that omission is intentional?
Those watches are neat now. I didn't like when they were gimmicky step counters, but having cardiac feedback and a life alert button is good peace of mind since I usually ride alone. I don't have any special pants yet beyond wearing a fleece layer below 0C. Those would be nice for hip and knee impacts. The big leg injury you risk though is the bike tipping over onto you, called Lime Leg in the UK. I don't know if there are padded pants that reinforce your femur and lower leg bones.
Cool thanks again for putting this info out on here and also explaining the wherefore behind it. Like you said in your other reply, any bone that doesn't get broken is worth it.
i've read that drivers give you more room if you have long hair and no helmet, so gear kinda depends on what you're worried about. there's crashes where you want it, crashes where no amount of it will save you, and crashes where maybe you'd rather die from it than have lifelong problems and debt.
Think I'm gonna get an aventon aventure fat tire bike as it only 2 grand and I need it to do a 40 mile round trip every day
They seem really solid. I wish I had gone with a fat tyre over my commuter bike for the extra utility on bad surfaces. It's marginally easier to pedal mine if the battery goes dead for some reason, but I take a bigger risk if the weather is bad or I have to ride on gravel/bumpy dirt.
I had a pretty good experience buying from here: https://upway.co/collections/used-electric-bike
Thoughts: make sure you have a mechanic shop around that will service your brand of bike before you buy. I had some issues with my bike, but i took it to an authorized mechanic and got everything sorted and paid for by the reseller
why not a regular bike?
cheaper . Human-Powered. less complicated. less breakable. easier to repair . easier to carry up and down stairs.
There's nothing wrong with a regular bike and it has the upsides you listed. I was a bike commuter (on a commuter bike made for utility, not a road one made for speed) for four years before I bought an ebike and here's what it got me:
I never have a reason to avoid biking. Too cold or hot? I'll arrive without being too sweaty or frostbitten. Too windy? I always have a tailwind. Too tired after working 10 hours in the sun? I always have a throttle and the strength of a world-class athlete. Too hilly? All terrain is flattened. Too long a ride? I'll arrive refreshed instead of tired and have the energy to go hiking/work a really physical job.
It feels like biking as a child. On my normal bike, everything is effort so I end up choosing the most efficient routes and keeping it at speed to avoid having to pedal more. On my ebike, casually pedaling reaches the same top speed as using maximum effort on my normal bike. I go out of my way to explore, see things that otherwise wouldn't be worth the effort, and stop without the pain of starting. Having all that strength and energy makes it fun instead of punishing, and zipping along at those speeds is as fun as driving in a canyon.
It carries weight easily. On my normal bike I don't like doing errands. Weight feels wonky and makes it much harder to ride, especially if I am transporting something bulky. With my ebike I feel confident riding with 40kg on the back have safely maxed out its 63kg limit. This makes it a very practical car replacement for any urban need I've had short of moving between apartments.
It's as fast or faster than urban driving. Starting easily from a stop and easily maintaining the appropriate max speed for that surface means I can get anywhere in my city about as fast as driving and parking. On my normal bike I'm going slower with more effort.
It's entirely pleasant. On my normal bike I'm too distracted from the effort to take in the landscape. Last night I went from eating dinner to a 15km ride mostly consisting of birdwatching. My situational awareness becomes so much better with my ebike, especially for the most enriching parts of bike infrastructure and urban greenspace.
It's there when you lose the capability to otherwise bike. I like how I get more muscle definition from the extra effort of my normal bike, but I can't exert that effort if I sprain my ankle or have any kind of illness. If I drive in those moments I'm risking my most expensive possession at a higher speed, if I take public transit my travel time is at least doubled. As long as I'm conscious I probably feel okay riding my ebike to a hospital or work without that being more physically taxing or unsafe than I can handle. It's a godsend on days where I have migraines or muscle spasms in my legs. It will be vital for me when I'm 40 and my joints start going or 80 and I can't drive or bike safely.
because biking is extremely shitty in a lot of places due to poor infrastructure and being half way to a motorcycle makes a lot of that tolerable.
a push bike isn't better if it doesn't displace drives.
Ebikes offer a ton of upside in range, rideability, and other conveniences for this who are interested in investing in them. Even with the price tag, they are a much easier sell to a layperson than an analog bike, and most people who would consider riding a bike already would by now.
It's that psychogeographical difference between the two that really sells ebikes for me. When the entire ride is pleasant and I only use as much effort as I want to, my commute becomes 15 minutes of learning about socioecology. I can take in everything around me and think about it without distraction. Now I measure that commute by the number of additional gardens and parks I route through with the time savings over normal biking. I can toss in an additional 5km of birdwatching or smelling particular flowers that I only found because my ebike encouraged me to explore side streets and bike more often.
Electric micromobility offers a genuinely new experience. Travel is entirely liberating now. It's not something I have to think about or plan around or be stressed by. It's just 15 minutes of meditating in nature and thinking about the landscape while doing something that feels like a roller coaster, stopping whenever I want for any neat thing I see without that costing time or effort. That kind of lifestyle is so much nicer than what I had when driving or on my regular bike.
100% agree
I prefer regular bikes but e-bikes have their place if you want to move heavy stuff (including kids) or want to get around but aren't physically able to use a regular bike to do so.
I'm trying my best to get a sense of the options and I can't seem to get a lock on trustworthy info. Everything on youtube about ebikes seems to be either paid barkers or random people doing their first ride - very little of people talking about how their ebike is holding up ten years later, or getting into repairs, overhauls, upgrades, or diy mods. Where are the wonky charts of longitudinal stats? Even old posts on forums never seem to have follow-ups saying how the posters' choices went. Nothing seems to get me closer to the confidence that I can distinguish something proven from a lemon. What is the AK-47 of ebikes, and how would I know? I wish I had more time to figure it out.
At least I overhauled my old road bike before the only bike shop in my town went under recently. I wish I could determine my spoke guages and get a supply of spares; I wish I'd thought to ask the guy before he went out of business. I do at least have plenty of inner tubes and lubricants.
dont forget about mopeds. a honda ruckus retails for 3000. i own one and have saved so many miles on the family car ( recession has already reduced us to a one car family) and it gets over 100 miles a gallon.
Reputable existing high quality bike brand (they made bikes before ebikes were even a thing) standard non-e-bike then add to that a reputable brand conversion kit and either do the work yourself or pay a shop to do so. Use the top name brand components (like Shimano for the motor for example). Problem is with the bike itself unless you're buying a used bike and get a good deal you're probably looking at $3000-$4000 or more for this set-up.
Upside is because it's entirely off the shelf components there's nothing proprietary and you should be able to repair it indefinitely short of major damage to the bike frame. Downside is it's costly and involved. Also because it doesn't come in a preassembled package you need to either find a bike shop you trust to recommend components or do a lot of individual research per part.
Aside from that I guess Aventon is supposedly pretty cheap and okay. Other decent brands are going to be closer to the custom built bike in terms of costs.
I hate that about the industry. Almost every article and video is astroturfed, while most sales are fake unless a model is being phased out. So far the closest I've found to an AK-47 is a Tern cargo bike. The components in those are solid enough to last upwards of a decade. I expect 3-5 years of reliable heavy use from a brand like Aventon or Velotric in the budget tier, but in 3-5 years I expect those brands to have much more capable bikes worth upgrading to while donating my old one. The brand-specific subreddits gave me a good sense of each model's problems while I cross-referenced videos to judge comparisons between them.
Argh, of course I would have to wade back into Reddit. On the bright side, it's not Discord.
I appreciate the tips!
What's a good brand?
I'm really satisfied with the Specialized Vado
It varies country-to-country, but the main thing is that you want a long-established brand with the strictest battery safety standards you can find and the newest model available because that tech is advancing so rapidly. At least in the US I'm happy with my Aventon Abound LR, would side-upgrade to a Specialized Globe Haul, and am looking to upgrade to a Tern/Cannondale/Urban Arrow eventually as a long-term cargo bike. I would avoid the Lectric Xpedition because it has worse components than the Aventon, as well as Engwe and other direct-to-consumer brands (Aventon only gets a pass because it's a quality bike with a big service network, the main thing you'll struggle to find with a generic Amazon bike). Rad Power Bikes is the big one to avoid for battery safety and the company voiding warranties during their bankruptcy. If I could only buy one bike from the start, I would have invested in a Tern that stands up and has the highest rear rack weight rating I can find.
In terms of bike category, I value utility more than anything. Within the same ebike Class everything powers to the same speed, so the increased bulk of the cargo bike over my commuter bike doesn't really matter unless I'm storing it. I can fit a week's worth of groceries, big bulky items, two kids, an adult below 63kg, a full camping kit, or everything I need for my commute on the back. Carrying another adult with confidence in the frame is the only reason I want more weight capacity. The wider tyres allow it to handle better on uneven terrain and snow, while having a rear-hub motor allows me to use a throttle that makes starting painless. My commuter bike has a better quality mid-drive motor which makes it feel like a normal bike that I'm peddling with the strength of an Olympic athlete, but those don't handle throttles well so I'm actively pedaling even when it sucks to.
edit: And most importantly, a cheap bike is expensive. Cheap components either can't handle the stresses of ebikes or will fail within a few years of heavy use, at which point you're paying the cost of a new cheap bike to replace the motor and battery in a bike that doesn't feel good to ride. I thought I was saving money with my first purchase, a Lectric Xpress 750, and it sucked compared to my Aventon.
Tern is S-tier but you'll pay for it. Happy badger is very happy with their Aventon though and they're much cheaper.
What's a good place to buy from?
It's good to go through some sort of local shop for initial warranty and tune-up reasons. Manufacturer websites will allow you to look up a local dealer.
I got mine from REI because it was the same price as manufacturer MSRP but with that 10% member reward, and good discounts on bike shop work.
I bought my Aventon directly through their website because the manufacturer warranty is 2+ years normally.
I bought my commuter bike from Upway.co, which sells dealer overstock and slightly used bikes at a steep discount with a one year warranty. As long as you're buying a high quality bike the components should be fine for 3-5+ years of heavy use. Everything went fine with my Upway purchase and it shipped as fast as Aventon.
You'll pay a price premium for this one, but the best option is to buy from a local bike shop. They'll usually include free maintenance, tune-ups, and an initial inspection. The speed and weight of ebikes means more stress on the components so that will save you a lot of money and heartache. I'm buying my next ebike from REI for the same reasons Abracadaniel did. It's the closest bike shop that I would feel comfortable walking a dead bike to.
So like, what features do I need to look for to get the ones that can unlock the speed and go line 45?
Usually the speedometer has a setup screen and you lie to it about the tire size.
That's a Class 3 bike, but you'd do well to buy a Class 2 bike that has a Class 3 unlock mode. My Aventon Abound LR is Class 2 limited to 32kmh which my city regulates as the max rating for any bike infrastructure. It unlocks a 40kmh mode from the display if I want to ride faster on roads. Most non-cargo ebikes with that feature will go the full 45kmh, with the utility tradeoff not being worth it for me. Unpaved infrastructure like trails are limited to Class 1 where the motor reaches 32kmh but you can't use a throttle. If you buy a bike that goes faster than 45kmh, increasingly cities are outlawing those and regulating them as motorcycles.
https://www.aventon.com/products/level-3-step-through-commuter-ebike?variant=44177465082051 Something around the specs of this would be a good budget commuter bike, with the comfortable carrying capacity of 2-4 bags of groceries, that reaches full Class 3 speed. Velotric and Specialized have some good models that you can pick up, especially used/overstock, for $1300-2000 and have quality components from. My commuter bike is a Class 2/3 Bianchi Omnia that I got from Upway.co with $3500 components for $1600. The electronics on that will probably last me 5-10 years of heavy use.
Where I am in Canada, the speed limit for ebikes is 32 km/h, which does feel too slow at times especially when riding on the road with cars. I understand the slower speed limit for bike paths that might be shared with pedestrians too. I've heard I can take my Specialized bike to the US and have them program it to the US speed limit (I believe 38 km/h) but that also comes with risks.
I've come to terms with 32kmh as the compromise speed, albeit I try to avoid traffic at all costs and can for 90% of my commute. Even when I've unlocked my commuter bike to 45kmh, it doesn't really get me there faster because I end up being more cautious and slowing down whenever I think I might have to brake at max speed. I still feel slow next to the cars on half our urban roads, but I feel too fast to safely correct/stop/ditch the bike. At 32kmh my reflexes are a lot better and the injury risk of the crash is halved. I can keep the speed consistent while still having enough time to safely stop in 2m. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast in my case.
Any of those that don't have built in GPS tracking?
I think most pre-2023 models don't include it outside of super premium models, but now that's becoming pretty standard in anti-theft suites because they're priority targets. For me the privacy concerns are a worthwhile tradeoff for the other modern features. My 2025 Abound auto-locks the kickstand and rear wheel, is password protected, has a motion alarm that notifies me on my phone, and I can geofence it or lock the motor remotely. Those features are really uncommon in older bikes. At the same time you're also getting an older and smaller battery that you can't replace as easily, maybe a cadence sensor that feels a lot worse than a torque sensor, and limited app support for things like real-time monitoring of the electronics.
On my 2023 Bianchi's Bosch app, I can disable the GPS tracking by disabling location permissions on my phone. Presumably other bikes with Bosch systems have that same software option, but my Aventon's GPS tracker is built into the bike's motherboard.
Ideally somewhere in person so you'll know you can get support for the brand of things go sideways and you want the mechanic to bail you out.
Get one at a local bike shop that's willing to repair it or verify that a local bike shop can support whatever you buy. Or plan on fixing it yourself when the electronics inevitably have an issue.
There are many good brands and many okay brands but the biggest difference in overall experience will be what happens when it breaks and how often it breaks.
Decathlon has very cheap ebikes that are a good quality for the money.
Anything with a Bosch, Shimano, cyc, or tangshen mid drive motor (mounted in the bottom bracket, adds power at the crank) is a good starting point. Hub drive motors tend to be used on cheaper bikes. As someone else said, Aventon is a better choice among the lower price options
I'm super happy with my Bianchi's Bosch mid-drive motor compared to my Aventon's. It's maybe half as loud, which is nice for not scaring animals at a higher speed and hearing more birdsong, and will reliably last for twice as long. The more naturalistic feel of a mid-drive is nice, with it just feeling like the bike is an extension of my legs instead of a moped I can pedal, but the throttle with a rear-hub is really useful. It's there when I don't want to pedal, when I need to crawl over ice with my legs down, when I'm awkwardly weighted down, when I feel sick, and when I need to start at a green light with a car waiting to turn. I get a lot more utility from that cheaper and more inefficient motor.
Done :)
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