this post was submitted on 17 Mar 2026
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[–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 2 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

CONTEXT: Germany 1880, trying to establishing the relevance to national wealth of rubber imported from colonies.

Moving the goalposts is not context. It is deflection. Your original claim was that Germany industrialized without colonial benefit. That is false. The global system Germany operated within was structured by colonial extraction. Even if rubber was "0.2% of GDP" (which is again straight from your ass), it still spectacularly misses the point being made. Capital accumulation is not about raw input percentages. It is about super-profits, protected markets, financial infrastructure, and reinvestment capacity. Colonial trade provided all of that. Isolating one commodity used as an example to dismiss the system is not the dunk you seem to think it is.

Global production is 11K tons, almost entirely from the Empire of Brazil, not a colony of a European country

Brazil in 1880 was not "not a colony". It was a semi-colonial economy, formerly Portuguese, integrated into the British imperial economic sphere. Informal empire counts. The cotton, rubber, and minerals that fed European industry came from conditions of unequal exchange. Prices set in London. Shipping controlled by British firms. Contracts enforced by gunboats. That is the material relation. To pretend that "not a formal colony" means "not extraction" is to ignore how imperialism and colonialism actually works.

Europe was not a thing. Shipping insurance was a thing since medieval age.

No one said "Europe" was a unified state. The point was that German capital operated within a European imperial circuit. British shipping, Lloyd's insurance, French ports, German industrial demand: all part of the same extraction-based system. To isolate "national" banks from that circuit is methodological nationalism. It ignores how capital actually moves. Deutsche Bank financed foreign trade. German firms used British insurance. German goods moved on British ships. That is not "irrelevant". That is the system.

The only mineral not from a European country in your list was tin. Germany had tin deposits on the border with Bohemia, but most of the Tin was from Cornwall.

Cornwall was embedded in the British imperial mining complex. Its profits relied on colonial capital, colonial technology, and colonial markets. The same goes for Spanish iron, Swedish copper, Bohemian manganese. These were not isolated national industries. They operated within a European extractive circuit built on colonial power. Cheap labor from the periphery kept input costs down. Colonial infrastructure lowered shipping costs. Imperial finance provided the credit. That is how European mining stayed profitable.

Germany directly benefited from access to these mines. German steel used Spanish iron. German machinery used Swedish copper. German industry used Cornish tin. The prices, the availability, the reliability of supply, all shaped by imperial relations. To treat these as "just European" inputs is to ignore the global division of labor that made them cheap and accessible. Germany did not need its own colonies to benefit from colonial extraction. It just needed to participate in the system. And it did.

You keep isolating variables to avoid the systemic argument. One commodity. One year. One border. That is cherry-picking to protect a preconceived conclusion.

At this point, continuing is futile. You have shown you will move the goalposts, dismiss facts that inconvenience you, and lash out when basic history is corrected. If you are not willing to engage the argument in good faith, there is no point in further comments.

TL;DR baby's first dialectical and historical materialist breakdown: Germany in 1880 did not industrialize in a vacuum. It operated within a global capitalist system structured by colonial extraction. Raw materials from the periphery (cotton, rubber, minerals) fed German industry at prices shaped by imperial power. Protected colonial markets absorbed German exports. European finance, shipping, and insurance networks built on extraction facilitated German trade. Super-profits from the colonial system funded reinvestment and innovation in the core. Germany benefited from this system even before it had direct colonies. It helped sustain the system through demand, finance, and participation in the imperial circuit. That is how the material relations worked.

Also ai badjacketing me because you can't make a coherent point is cringe and you should grow up. The fact you talk so arrogantly on a topic you are so woefully uneducated about is embarrassing and honestly you should be embarrassed, but that's a good thing. You should channel this embarrassment I hope you feel into learning before speaking to avoid it in the future.

[–] encelado748@feddit.org 0 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (1 children)

Ok, you won, my original claim that "Germany industrialized without colonial benefit" is false. I am defeated. I will claim that "Germany industrialized with minimal colonial benefit when minimal represent an economical input that is less then 5% of GDP by 1880".

then I will stop this charade. Have a nice day, kind of worthless discussion

[–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 3 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

You cannot even graciously admit you were wrong. You have to make another bs claim pulled straight from your ass and cover it in sarcasm. "Minimal colonial benefit" defined by an arbitrary GDP percentage you just invented.

This was never about winning or losing. I was hoping that from exposure you might decide to do some research instead of spreading colonial apologism and "smarter Europe" nonsense that borders on race science.

Genuinely, if you just take the time to read the works I recommended and apply a proper analysis to history, you will be much more informed. Less likely to be embarrassed. Less likely to lash out when basic facts are corrected.

I wish you the best in growing up and finishing your education. Hopefully it broadens your horizons.

[–] encelado748@feddit.org -2 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

I am so embarrassed in front of your clearly superior knowledge. You made so many unbiased relevant defining points tonight that I really struggle to reconstruct my flawed vision of global socioeconomic dynamics.