this post was submitted on 18 Mar 2026
110 points (99.1% liked)

Europe

10660 readers
685 users here now

News and information from Europe ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡บ

(Current banner: La Mancha, Spain. Feel free to post submissions for banner images.)

Rules (2024-08-30)

  1. This is an English-language community. Comments should be in English. Posts can link to non-English news sources when providing a full-text translation in the post description. Automated translations are fine, as long as they don't overly distort the content.
  2. No links to misinformation or commercial advertising. When you post outdated/historic articles, add the year of publication to the post title. Infographics must include a source and a year of creation; if possible, also provide a link to the source.
  3. Be kind to each other, and argue in good faith. Don't post direct insults nor disrespectful and condescending comments. Don't troll nor incite hatred. Don't look for novel argumentation strategies at Wikipedia's List of fallacies.
  4. No bigotry, sexism, racism, antisemitism, islamophobia, dehumanization of minorities, or glorification of National Socialism. We follow German law; don't question the statehood of Israel.
  5. Be the signal, not the noise: Strive to post insightful comments. Add "/s" when you're being sarcastic (and don't use it to break rule no. 3).
  6. If you link to paywalled information, please provide also a link to a freely available archived version. Alternatively, try to find a different source.
  7. Light-hearted content, memes, and posts about your European everyday belong in other communities.
  8. Don't evade bans. If we notice ban evasion, that will result in a permanent ban for all the accounts we can associate with you.
  9. No posts linking to speculative reporting about ongoing events with unclear backgrounds. Please wait at least 12 hours. (E.g., do not post breathless reporting on an ongoing terror attack.)
  10. Always provide context with posts: Don't post uncontextualized images or videos, and don't start discussions without giving some context first.

(This list may get expanded as necessary.)

Posts that link to the following sources will be removed

Unless they're the only sources, please also avoid The Sun, Daily Mail, any "thinktank" type organization, and non-Lemmy social media (incl. Substack). Don't link to Twitter directly, instead use xcancel.com. For Reddit, use old:reddit:com

(Lists may get expanded as necessary.)

Ban lengths, etc.

We will use some leeway to decide whether to remove a comment.

If need be, there are also bans: 3 days for lighter offenses, 7 or 14 days for bigger offenses, and permanent bans for people who don't show any willingness to participate productively. If we think the ban reason is obvious, we may not specifically write to you.

If you want to protest a removal or ban, feel free to write privately to the admin that applied the rule (check modlog first to find who was it.)

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

The original (very generic) title):

Government to go "further and faster" in becoming energy secure

The Energy Secretary outlines measures to protect consumers and make Britain energy secure.

They are speaking of panels in the 800W range which you can just buy , mount in front of your balcony or on top of your carport, and plug into a wall socket.

These things are wildly popular in Germany. The do not generate a lot of power, but armotize in about three years and save real money. (Depending on how old the metering technology is, they can also make the power meter spin backwards, which I think is only fair considering how much households pay for kWh, compared to energy-hungry companies, which get most of the the massive cost savings from renewables but don't pay for the necessary upgrade of the grid).

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[โ€“] HaraldvonBlauzahn@feddit.org 13 points 1 day ago* (last edited 6 minutes ago) (2 children)

That's why the power you are allowed to install is limited. And also why they shut down without powet in the socket. The safety issue was a big concern and it took years of deliberation in Germany to get to that point. You can be assured that if something like that is allowed in Germany, it is pretty safe. The safety bodies are watching these issues with hawk's eyes, and these are professionals which know what they are doing and which move things into a good direction.

Honestly I am surprised why these things are not much more popular in any region where you need climatization in summer - they deliver power when it is most needed, and grids are at risk to fail.

Edit: Addition: If you are concerned, that the panels create more power than the wiring in your home can hold, you can reduce the power in the fuse to the grid. Say, you have a fuse to the grid that allows 32 Ampere, but the wiring holds only 24 Ampere. In addition, you install two balcony panels which have a total of 2000 Watt, or 2 Kilowatt.

Now, what you do: To be on the safe side without the panels, you reduce the fuse to the grid to 24 Ampere, so that the grid can never deliver more than the wiring in your home can sustain. Now, you factor in the panels: 2000 Watt at 230 Volt yield 2000 W / 230 V = 8.7 Ampere. Now, you subtract these from the 24 Ampere that your wiring can hold, and you get to 15.3 Ampere which you can put as the limit to your fuse to the grid. You can round that up to 16 Ampere (which is, by the way, the bog standard rating for household fuses in Germany).

The above number is equivelent to 3690 Watt. That should work, because nowadays the only appliance which draws a lot of power is the electric stove - nobody heats any more using pure electrical heaters since they are just too expensive.

[โ€“] timwa@lemmy.snowgoons.ro 5 points 1 day ago (3 children)

The UK though has the added spice of the uniquely unsafe ringmain wiring standard, in which 24A cable in the wall is protected by a 32A breaker at the distribution panel. It's only "safe" if the load is evenly balanced around the ring, and the ring isn't broken (that's why UK plugs need fuses in them - to make it harder to severely unbalance the ring by pulling 32A out of a single socket, and equally to try and protect the appliance cable if a short or similar tries to.)

I've not sat down with a pen and paper to work out how having a generator somewhere on the ring affects things - presumably the authorities have...

[โ€“] hitmyspot@aussie.zone 0 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

But doesn't the plug based amp mitigate the very problem you're worried about at the appliance level?

[โ€“] timwa@lemmy.snowgoons.ro 1 points 4 hours ago

Isn't that what I wrote?

It's an imperfect mitigation, though - the typical fuse in the plug is 13A, so you only need two fully loaded sockets and you're already in trouble. Fortunately these days nobody is plugging in 3-bar electric fires or immersion heaters, and it's quite hard to find those kinds of loads outside the kitchen, so it's less of a practical issue, sure. (This is also why UK electrical code recommends that any load greater than 2kW should be given its own radial instead of being plugged into the ringmain. It's not unusual for the kitchen to be on a dedicated radial (or two) even if the rest of the house is on rings.)

(You could instantly make UK wiring a lot safer by just eliminating the over-rating of the breakers - i.e. if you have a 24A ring, put a 24A breaker on it. In the olden days that would probably have caused nuisance trips (3-bar fires and all,) but these days I doubt anyone would notice.)

[โ€“] varyingExpertise@feddit.org 3 points 19 hours ago

It's probably okay, in the usual UK buildings, for the first 24h you'd be cooking the dampness out of the wall.

[โ€“] fullsquare@awful.systems 1 points 23 hours ago

800W is just 3.5A so probably can be managed

[โ€“] Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 1 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

And also why they shut down without powet in the socket.

All solar systems do that, which is a good thing! It prevents lots of dead powerline workers. But that's not the only reason, solar converters need to "tune" their AC frequency to that of the grid. No grid? Nothing to match. No power.

It's also why, if you want a stand-alone system, you don't just need a really big breaker between your house and the grid, but also a different type of converter entirely.

[โ€“] Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 4 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

prevents lots of dead powerline workers.

That's a persistent myth, and it drives me nuts every time I read it. If power line workers are working on something that is supposed to be dead, they treat it as live and work it with hot sticks until they have bonded all the phases together and to ground. This is done both at the point of disconnect and where the work is actually being done.

Even if they didn't do this, your little inverter is trying to backfeed the entire grid. The load it sees is indistinguishable from a dead short. Your inverter would overload and trip offline, even if it wasn't watching the grid voltage and frequency.

There just isn't a special risk to power line workers.

[โ€“] Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 1 points 17 hours ago

Hmmm, I'm not an electrical engineer, and really not a line worker, but I do workplace safety for a living. I was sure you're wrong, but it is indeed not listed anywhere in the sector's risk inventory here. I stand very corrected.

There is a generic "Make the site safe from both ends" risk mitigation though, and it makes sense that you take the same measures no matter what the source of the potential risk. Doesn't matter if the cause is "all the solar panels" or "Some absolutely moron did things wrong several decades ago" or just plain "shit broke yo".