this post was submitted on 03 Mar 2026
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The so-called democratic system in modern states is usually monopolized by the bourgeoisie and has become simply an instrument for oppressing the common people.
Chairman Mao pushing the people to voting the Japanese imperialists and KMT fascists off the mainland:
I don't see mls driving out ICE from MN. Why would they? They can't even be bothered to vote; much less something that takes even more effort.
Ok just to preface I am not amerikkkan so outside looking on on your many issues.
But genuine question how do you see an ml? Can you read their mind? Or do you expect them to label themselves as such on a name tag or sign? What of the people who are for all intents and purposes ml but simply don't take on the label for one reason or another? Feels like you're making a lot of assumptions based on vibes.
Also another question. Voting isn't just voting under your system as I understand it. It's a multi year process of canvassing and related work. So if bourgeois-democracy has been shown to be a dead end repeatedly throughout history it feels like wasting the hundreds of hours to prep and do it is a real misallocation of resources no?
Spreading agit-prop, showing up for "protests" (parades in the American case from what I've seen (this is a whole separate tangent I could go on)) and generally teaching arming and doing socialist work seems much more valuable use of time. Not hyper familiar with American orgs so I would defer to the likes of cowbee to explain in detail what the orgs are actually doing with the saved resources.
Well the server you are on ends in .ml to mean marxist lenninist, so yeah they are kind of labeled.
Im not going to repeat too much, but you can read more with my chat with @Cowbee@lemmy.ml on here. You do make a good point. It is a marathon and those take prep, but so does everything else we are doing. You are going to be reaching out and canvasing for your community food bank, your protests, and strikes. You don't have to go all out with spending money, but formalizing yourself into your own party, which we should, marks us as real players and able to make an unset election if we are not taken into some consideration.
Outside of elections we still have some formal places to coordinate our outreach and keep putting our name out there.
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml makes it out like I am saying we should only vote, but note I am not saying that. I am saying that ignoring elections is foolish of us.
But nobody is saying we should ignore elections. We are saying elections cannot get positive change. This is a massive difference, yet you act like it's the same.
And yet you put so much effort into telling me why you are not going to help us get the left most candidate possible. You're the one effectively saying we should ignore elections.
No, I'm saying you're fighting a losing battle by thinking you can get a left candidate through, so the way you treat elections should be to highlight the impossibility of getting a left candidate through so as to encourage actual activism.
Do it anyway.
No one is arguing that we shouldn't, which is my point. Are you allergic to actually engaging with the points at hand, rather than consistently making them up to argue against?
I am engaging at the same level you are.
No, you really aren't.
I feel I am. I have presented my case. You're the one that wants to be counter productive and making excuses for people to stay home. "There will be opposition", brov there will be in each case. Just take an evening to vote its a small ask; the fact its too big for you means we cannot count on you for the bigger stuff.
I don't see why you think lying about my position is doing you any favors, I already told you I voted. The fact that you put such a huge emphasis on voting and arguing for it means you likely cannot be depended on to actually take to the streets and roll up your sleeves.
Glad you did, please help encourage more people to do so as well. We could all have an even bigger leftist movement. Voting is only a small part of what we need to do, but we should not neglect it.
You're tiring. Voting will not meaningfully advance the leftist movement beyond advertisement, and acting like this stance is counter-productive is harmful to getting meaningful change.
Bold assumption that ICE isn't an active threat to myself and those I care about, and no matter what the election results show, ICE is still a bipartisan institution. What stops ICE is organizing, striking, and protesting, not whether or not I vote Green, PSL, etc. ICE doesn't give a shit who people voted for, they aren't a democratic institution, they are here to forcibly deport and kill people.
Enjoy your privledge, where you think voting is a meaningful way to resist ICE.
Voting does not accomplish that! Voting will NOT make you heard and voting will NOT minimize harm. Your insistence that it does accomplish these things is what is harmful.
Telling people to do useless things saps their energy away from doing things that actually are meaningful like organizing. Voting is used as a tool by the bourgeois to get people to think they "did their duty" politically, so they can relax and not worry about having to do more even though "more" is still the bare minimum (voting is less than bare minimum). You have been duped by the bourgeois. Smarten up.
Didn't really answer my main question since that doesn't really apply in the situation described.
I see.
MLs would want to build credibility of their movement and they would be advertising who they are. When they houthis walk the talk and lob missiles at Israel or ships they are clear that it was them and why they are doing what they are. That helps bolster their movement and recruit more people to do even more.
If you are the group doing the action you want it known so that you can keep growing.
An important distinction here is that Ansar Allah is a militant group while "ml" is simply a political descriptor. There is no group or party called ml. ML's make up a large portion of communist party and other groups membership alongside others who describe themselves with other labels.
No you're not understanding what I'm saying. "ML" is not a group in the fashion of Ansar Allah or Hamas or so on. It's a descriptor applied to an individual who is then a member of a group with others who may or may not also fit that descriptor. That group then does things and takes credit as a group.
Here is PSL organizing strikes and protests to kick ICE out of MN. Stop fighting strawmen.
Many groups are mentioned. Its not clear they are all mls.
PSL is the focus, and PSL is an ML party. Many of the groups mentioned are front groups, PSL has many, like CODEPINK and the ANSWER coalition.
Lol, you tried to claim no mls were there, and then when got got proven catagorically wrong you tried to pivot to "they aren't all mls!"
They even made a MWoG post after this.
I'm not surprised. This is someone who got so mad at me pointing out the Biden administration was complict in genocide that they started stalking me across the fediverse for months
Checks out.
I never said I was unwilling to take an evening to vote, the part where I disagreed with you was in your over-emphasis on voting as a legitimate vehicle for change. If you truly believe voting is important, rather than a "might as well," then you aren't learning from centuries of leftist struggles that inform us that this is a dead end. Running to an anti-communist Nazi bar after you got banned tells me how you actually feel about lefties.
You never engaged with the points I made, though. I engaged clearly with what you were saying, then you ran off to the Nazi bar to make a post about me. You can certainly understand how that makes you come across, right? Why would anyone want to work with someone that behaves like that?
Glad you're still whining about losing an election over a year later because you supported genocide.
Oh fuck off, plenty of my Minnesota comrades who are out there fighting ICE are Marxist-Leninist. You dont "see MLs driving out ICE" because we don't fucking wear ID tags with our ideology on them, fuckwit. You're just making up shit and running with it (like that Marxists have some "purity" test against voting even though plenty did vote for De la Cruz but refused to vote for a fascist genocidal Democrat which is ACTUALLY what pissed of liberals like you).
Just because we have no interest in partaking in your meaningless ritual doesn't mean we aren't out there making up a good portion of the front line against fascism.