this post was submitted on 03 Mar 2026
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[–] Aqarius@lemmy.world 1 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

When it comes to decision making, to actually enforcing the rules and values these countries once said to obey, the UN is paralysed.

Only if by "enforcement" you mean "going to war", which, once again, is what the system is designed to prevent. Military intervention is difficult to authorize by design, precisely because it is, and should, be the last resort. Thinking of anything short of war as "paralyzed" is the exact "Stop-war association is worthless because it won't let me go to war" anglo brainworms that are to blame for the 21st century being what it is.

to ensure for the global elite of nuclear powers that they’d never have to face a decision against their will.

Yes. Exactly. That's how they prevent WW3. By making sure everyone else knows what the red lines of nuclear powers are. Otherwise, every time a nuclear power would want to take an action, it would be playing a game of chicken with all the other powers.

Because that theocratic regime determined to obliterate a whole nation

Who, Israel? Because from where I'm sitting, Iran's foreign policy has been, on the whole, more than reasonable. Last I heard, they even agreed to completely stop uranium enrichment alltogether - and then the theocratic regime determined to destroy their whole nation murdered their head of state.

If what you're saying is true, every single resolution on Iran's nuclear program would have been vetoed by Russia, and none were. None. Zero. Instead, the nuclear rogue state under the veto shield by a global power is the exact country you're defending.

[–] Quittenbrot@feddit.org 1 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Only if by “enforcement” you mean “going to war”

No, by enforcement I mean actually applying the law to stop the trespassing of the law. Or at least punish the trespassing if you couldn't stop the actual trespassing in time.

That’s how they prevent WW3.

How? WW3 would need a direct, open conflict between at least two major nuclear powers. A constellation we - luckily - haven't seen since WW2. I'd argue that this is because each of those countries knows that a conflict like that cannot be reliably contained and would end in MAD. So nukes are the balancing factor keeping these countries at check. I cannot see how the architecture of the UN comes into play here.

Who, Israel? Because from where I’m sitting, Iran’s foreign policy has been, on the whole, more than reasonable.

I guess you're sitting in an IRGC hq then. Because, not trying to downplay Netanyahu's actions, calling Iran's foreign policy, "on the whole, more than reasonable" is quite a hot take. One key aspect of Khomeini was to export the Islamic Revolution worldwide until everywhere on the globe we would shout "There's no God but Allah". I don't know about you, but I don't fancy to live in a theocracy under sharia law. Also, the position to outright annihilate Israel is one at least I cannot condone, won't fly legally in my jurisdiction, and is a position that will not bring peace to the region, let's be honest.

If what you’re saying is true, every single resolution on Iran’s nuclear program would have been vetoed by Russia, and none were. None. Zero.

As I said: Iran was so isolated that neither Russia nor China saw any gain in protecting them. That was then, though. Today, I think we both agree, Russia would veto.

is the exact country you’re defending.

Not blindly jumping on the echo chamber hate-wagon in every aspect is not defending. Netanyahu is a criminal and should be prosecuted. He does not want peace but to save his skin. Setting up more and more settlements on Palestinian soil and deporting the inhabitants is a crime. Starving the population in Gaza is a crime. But also: Israel has the right to exist as a country within its international borders. And those that cannot accept that are bringing injustice on themselves and are more part of the problem than of the solution.

[–] Aqarius@lemmy.world 1 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

punish the trespassing

Yes, that's what the sanctions are for. And I once again point out you literally brought up a case in which they demonstrably worked.

A constellation we - luckily - haven’t seen since WW2

Yes. Thanks in no small part to the UN.

calling Iran’s foreign policy, “on the whole, more than reasonable” is quite a hot take.

I know, it's crazy, and yet entirely correct. They took on the chin decades of open warmongering and multiple naked acts of war, retaliations that they did take were very carefully measured and precisely executed, going so far to telegraph their strikes a full day in advance so they would cause no casualties, and they even agreed to compromise on an armament program they (as we now see, rightfully) considered vital to the security if not outright survival of the country. It was like Ukraine agreeing to the Budapest agreement again. When their competition is a state that throws a hissyfit when asked nicely to stop killing children, I'd say they have been more than reasonable, even without considering we're talking about an Islamic theocracy.

Iran was so isolated that neither Russia nor China saw any gain in protecting them.

So, then, you agree that "under the explicit protection of one of the big veto powers, be it Iran and Russia or Israel and the US" was a false equivalence?

Today, I think we both agree, Russia would veto.

Veto what? A naked war of aggression US and Israel can't even articulate why they're starting? I'd hope there would be no need to have to resort to a veto.

But also: Israel has the right to exist as a country within its international borders.

So does Iran. And the UN's job is to try and enable both, no matter how much they'd like to run eachother over with a Zamboni machine. That's the whole point.

[–] Quittenbrot@feddit.org 1 points 3 hours ago

Yes, that’s what the sanctions are for.

..which won't come into effect if the trespasser is (under the protection of) a veto power.

And I once again point out you literally brought up a case in which they demonstrably worked.

Iran failing to secure a veto power that saw something to gain in protecting it in the past isn't proving or disproving anything. Today, since they are - as I said - a key enabler for Russia's war ambitions, they would be protected.

So, then, you agree that “under the explicit protection of one of the big veto powers, be it Iran and Russia or Israel and the US” was a false equivalence?

No. I said:

As soon as you’re under the explicit protection of one of the big veto powers, be it Iran and Russia or Israel and the US, you can do whatever you want.

And that is still correct.

Veto what?

For example prosecution for killing its own citizens en masse a couple of weeks ago for daring to stand up against the ongoing oppression by the regime. You know, something people on the left side of the political spectrum normally show great sympathies towards (fighting the oppression, that is, not killing the citizens).

So does Iran.

Who said otherwise? I haven't head many people opposing the mere "idea" of Iran. It is the sclerotic theocracy despised by the own populace, being so hellbent on annihilating another country, that makes that regime a strain on the international community. Mind you, of course it's not the only strain. Yet, there's an awful lot more people completely sympathetic to the idea of making Israel itself disappear from the map than there are that wish for maps without Iran.

And the UN’s job is to try and enable both, no matter how much they’d like to run eachother over with a Zamboni machine. That’s the whole point.

How good does that work if there's an elite caste that can veto whatever goes against their will? How can you get countries to abide by the rules if these rules only apply to certain countries?