this post was submitted on 08 Jan 2026
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If you ask people who really believe that, they’ll just point out the added nuances based on time/location of birth, moons, ascending, descending etc.
Yeah, I don't think astrology is any more real than, say, tarot cards. But both are complicated enough systems to be fun to play with, and also too complicated to simply 'disprove' like this post is trying to do.
Lotsa people think Astrology is just those sign things printed in newspapers (and, this does include some people who believe in it)
Using a scientific study to disprove human experience is completely missing the point. It’s the same urge to say that, “Love is just a bunch of chemicals.” What exactly are you trying to achieve, when insisting to other people that the reality or unreality of their experience depends on whether they compare those experiences to scientific studies that 1. Were not written for them and 2. Wasn’t written by/for you?
Sometimes people act as though they are better able to ascertain truth in every domain because they have a purely scientific and objective view of cosmology. Yet often, people who have a more scientific view will also sit in mysterious wonder about their place in the cosmos. “I’m so small and insignificant,” or sometimes, "nothing I ever do will matter, because of entropy and time scales measured in eons rather than years. But that feeling can also carry with it a feeling of wonder and awe, it can feel peaceful and part of something unfathomably larger than ourselves. That feeling however, and what it means to us is unaccounted for in scientific experimentation. Does that make the feeling illegitimate? What if I have an urge to try and explain the sense of wonder to myself in a way that was not bounded by science.
Have you ever wondered whether or not a practical method for uncovering truth about our natural world, may not be the absolute measure of all phenomena? And that asserting of one ontology as absolute over others is the literal definition of hegemony?
I know you aren't trying to oppress anyone but the negative reaction to a pretty harmless observation comes off to me as superstitious.
If something is good at making predictions, then science can and will confirm it.
No one can stop you from holding superstitions, but that doesn't make them useful in any way.
Is there anything in your life that has a use, that is not useful for making predictions?
Lots of things. My toaster for instance. I eat a lot of toasted bread.
But it isn't useful beyond roasting bread.
I don't. Astrology is designed to predict (at some base level) the future based on star patterns that are no longer alecen at the same location or timing that they were originally. It is a pseudo-spiratual belief.
When I put in some toast it toasts it, assuming everything is working. If something isn't working I have to figure it out.
Why? Because it is a handful of wires that get hot when there is current. Not even cool wires like in a computer that do something meaningful.
I have no expectation that it is going to do anything but make my sandwich--and no reasonable person would carry such an expectation.
No, you are the person who is being unreasonable by your own admission. You re asserting it is a way to make scientific predictions, it is not a way to do that. That is exactly my point. You are the one saying the toaster is for making predictions, when it clearly isnt for people who actually use toasters. Do you get it? You are asserting astrology is a way to make scientific predictions. It isnt that, it doesnt serve that function. So it is ridiculous to assert it does something that it doesnt.
If people want to believe something and you dont care for it or understand it, then why make it your business? You are just closing yourself off from a whole bunch of people for no reason. You're not above it, I guarantee you have a ton of beliefs that can be disproven scientifically. If people want to take that and use it to tell themselves a narrative, we all do that in different ways. We believe stuff all the time that isn't based on science!
Most of the time i see virulent anti astrology its not coming from very good people. A lot of white dudes with very objective views. Low key authoritarians, using a kind og hegemony of academia to puff themselves up, maybe tell some ladies they are stupid. So that's what I see when I read your comments
Has anyone ever told you that you are a high-key crazy person?
No but I tell other people that all the time
Look, man, I don't know what to tell you. You're welcome to whatever religious beliefs you want. No one can rob you of them. But I'm not going to entertain dumbass discussions of spiritualality vs. utility.
Honestly who gives a f***. You do you.
I cannot respond to everything but this point strikes me:
In a vacuum, yes, these are harmless observation. When you look at the broader picture though, you will find strong connections to rejecting all of science and to the far right.
Anytime someone mentions astrology (at least online, I do not know anyone who believes in it IRL) it is just a matter of time until they talk about the COVID vaccine and a supposed "New World Order" by the IWF, Jews and whatnot.
At least that's the case in Germany. You can read a bit more here, you may want to use machine translation. Article published by the Federal Agency for Civic Education.
https://www.bpb.de/themen/rechtsextremismus/dossier-rechtsextremismus/550441/rechtsextreme-esoterik/
I really think your "broader picture" is context specific. In the US, right wingers go to church and mostly hate astrology. Ive never met a vaguely right wing practitioner of mysticism. Most people I meet who are into astrology are women, lgbtq+, and minorities, people who are more likely to have their opinions silenced by white men questioning their logic and reason. One of the most popular astrologers right now is Chani Nicholas, who is left wing, and discusses social justice and organizing in her content. Our mystics often call themselves "witches" and can be persecuted for their beliefs by our most prominent persecutors, the christian right. We have periodic "satanic panics" that lead to the arrest of queer people and minorities, who are imprisoned for decades in some cases, while the actual satanists never get caught.
There is objectively a fascism problem everywhere. To criticize astrology as if academic science doesnt have such a problem, is just a different flavor of gullibility. But I admit, the first time I ever met a like a hardcore white supremacist neo-nazi, although i didn't know it at the time, we got high and he told me all about gnostic mysticism. It took me years to untangle the horrible logic that underpinned the spirituality he was peddling. But that Nazi was so nice and cool. Not once did he take one of my ideas and try to invalidate them. When in mentioned I liked jazz he put on (all white but very good) Mahavishnu Orchestra. We discussed philosophy and metaphysics, and he tried to plant little seeds that, if believed, could absolutely lead to belief in far right extremist ideas, similar to some of the descriptions in the article you shared, like the creation of a new authority, etc.,
But I think if people with liberal or left sensibilities took the effort to really try to connect with people, rather than hegemonically eradicate competing ontologies, then maybe the fash wouldnt be able to gain purchase in these communities. The principal error of idealism is that ideas create society, and to some extent it is true, however ideas are created by society. If educated people are going to shun and humiliate someone who sees a mystic or looks up star charts, then the politics, my friend, will be determined by the social forces that are active in those communities.
I am a materialist, but I also dont believe that spirituality and materialism are totally at odds. The history of why they are at odds is very interesting, and socioeconomic, rather than purely philosophical. Isaac Newton was a mystic, Hegel studied mysticism to formulate his dialectics. I know scientists who are deeply religious and I know people who grew up studying Wicca and then became rational, methodical scientists.
So on the one hand there may be some cultural difference, but also judging the way the German government has treated pro-palestine protesters, There seems to be more political willingness to force people to adhere to certain beliefs. I'm not sure how much the history of Nazi esotericism is in effect in your country, I bet it cuts a lot of different ways.
The fash are winning the culture war, by engaging with culture. Meanwhile liberals, who dont really know why they believe what they believe, continue to ridicule others for their beliefs, because once upon a time rich landlords and the emergent capitalist class wanted to take land away from the church, and they did it by supporting kinds of scientific inquiry that would discredit the church. Granted the history of the church vs scientific inquiry up to that point was pretty terrifying, but these things have a way coming back around. You know, first as tragedy, again as farce.
The emergent right isnt the fault of mysticism and superstition, it is a protracted campaign carried out by our ruling classes and kept alive by extractive social relations. The more divided we are against ourselves, the more ground they gain. Instead of thinking of beliefs as personal failings, think of them as social movements made up of people.
I'm not a mystic but I will fight for witches, especially against smug objectivists. Not saying that you come off as smug, but there is no shortage of smugness among the scientific rational atheist contingent
Yes, I know. Not my point; my point is that you can't disprove it with a cheap gotcha, not that it's real. I say I don't think its real in my post.
Source: Trust me bro.
Same. I do not believe in astrology, and don't want people to think I do. Lol.
But to the astrology people, like my best friend, those two being born on the same day doesn't disprove anything, it strengthens it. They're both born on the same day, they're both globally recognizable figures, they have strong, divisive opinions, they are both at least somewhat charismatic, and they both lead huge movements (or, at least, are figureheads with staunch supporters and followers of their own). The details of them having polar opposite opinions and ethics is immaterial to "what the stars have destined for them!" Or whatever the fuck
It has to make correct predictions. It doesn't.
There is nothing to disprove.
It does because it’s vague. Imo.
Well yeah that's literally what they believe. A better argument is identical twins that turn out extremely differently.
I mean, I think a better argument would be most folks interested in astrology use tropical astrology and not sidereal so the places they're saying the sun and planets are when folks are born in relation to the stars are actually extremely off.
All that said most folks into astrology are pretty casual about it and don't think much about it. Yes, obviously there are still quite a few people who do believe it hard core to the extent of effectively discrimination based on people's month of birth but they're still the minority of folks who do astrology things.