Nina spitting truths as always. She's on fire recently, so follow her if you're not doing so already.
To be clear; everyone working in my government, particularly after today, is a Nazi, or someone who works for Nazis. Do you know what we call people who worked for the Nazis, in the Nazi government? Yes, that is correct, Nazis.
So Machado is certainly not gonna feel lonely on the list of people on my TV who are definitely Nazis.
Oh, was that too harsh? Are you feeling bad for the good career civil servants, working for the literal fucking Nazis, who I have just impuned? Cool, let's refer back to that part where I said I was surrounded by people who openly recognize that this is fascism, and ABSO-FUCKING-LUTELY refuse to accept what that actually means.
We call people, who worked for the Nazi Party, in the Nazi government, Nazis. Nobody says "the Nazi government and the career civil servants who hated them but stayed."
"They'll just find someone else."
Then let them. "I took the job at the concentration camp because I was sure Hitler would find someone else" was not a good defense in court last time, and it won't be this time either.
I think that what you're realizing is that lots of the Nazis in Germany were likely we'll meaning people stuck in a bad situation who kept coming to work because they needed to provide for their families and pay bills and maintain their homes.
And do you know how history refers to those people?
How they're referred to does not imply that they ought to be referred to that way.
How ought we call collaborators of genocide?
History refers to them as Germans. I'm not playing that game with you. My country share a border with Germany. We know the history very well an we know the hard work the Germans put in after the war was over, as well as the hard work many of them put in to oppose the system while they were under Hitler.
It is the same with everyday Russians who have no control over what their leader is doing to their neighbors.
And now, Americans, stuck in a system that has been stolen by a skinwalker.
I don't want people to starve and go homeless just because some terminally online, holier than thou people online think that opposing a regime is as easy as to just quit your job.
Been reading this thread interested as someone whose loved one works for municipal IT. On that basis I sympathize with your perspective, but I have to take issue with this statement:
I wouldn't say so. This is the system that we have. The executive office has been erasing checks and balances since WWII. The Heritage Foundation and other SIGs have been pushing white supremacy for 200 years. ICE was created by Bush Jr. after after a mob riot in Florida disrupted a recount that could have given the presidency to Al Gore. Generously this is when we can say our democracy first proved flawed, but the rationalizations and mechanisms go back to our founding. We haven't been hijacked, we are the monster and have been for some time.
That is fair. I have never thought America was a perfect country before trump and have always had massive issues with how things have been run and the - in my opinion - bad values that it has been nurturing. However, I did see a will to move in a better direction where the country was starting to focus more on its people's welfare and trump has more than undone that progress and been a pathetic counter reaction to those positive changes.
It was never a perfect country but this development is kinda the worst version of the worst initiatives the country has made in recent decades.
For what it's worth I do feel a lot of sympathy for the American people who are stuck in this nightmare. I am the absolute angriest at the American nation I have ever been in my life and that's why I have to hold on to the fact that a pretty significant number of Americans are not okay with the direction their nation is going in.
I hope it makes sense to you. I just imagine that a lot of Americans currently feels more alienated by their own nation's conduct than usual. I sure would even if many of the things going on are pretty much business as usual, but being expressed by a monkey who's been given a fully loaded machine-gun.
I do understand, and it does make sense to me.
Thank you, friend!
My mom's cousin (now deceased) was Danish. I wore a shirt showing a unified Germany back in the early 90s and she reacted with a disdainful remark along the lines of "Look at them, so proud of their big unified country." Clearly no love lost for the Germans from her! So it's notable to me that a Dane (judging by the instance) would stand up for the Germans now.
Side note, I apologize that my country's fascist government is threatening to annex Greenland from you. If they try it, feel free to shoot first and ask questions later with my regards!
It's understandable that some of the older generations who most likely lived through the occupation of Denmark wouldn't be the biggest fans of Germany. I remember as a child watching a news coverage of an anniversary memorial of the 1864 battle at Dybbøl Mølle where Denmark was utterly humiliated by the Germans and there was this very old guy from the area who was old enough to have had family members harmed by in that battle and he had so much hatred for the Germans still. Meanwhile everybody else saw 1864 as a part of Danish history that we no longer held any grudges over.
I grew up in a Denmark where WW2 was talked about all the time in history classes, in radio shows and documentaries and movies. The through line in all of these different forums and medias is that there was a general push for understanding how these things can happen and how we have to see each other as human beings because the minute we dehumanize the one we don't like, we open ourselves up to becoming the very monster we hated.
I remember listening to a radio program back in the early 2010s where a holocaust survivor was talking about exactly this. That we cannot forget that the nazis were humans too and we cannot treat Hitler like he wasn't human. I held on to that program in my psyche hence forward.
Der Untergang is in my opinion the most important ww2 movie ever made for that exact reason.
And this is also the difference between how Europe and especially Germany and eastern Europe portrays ww2 vs how America portrays it in media.
America always makes movies about how they are the heroes with big gun, noble soldiers who sacrifices their lives for others. Band of Brothers is an amazing show and I love it to death.
But European ww2 movies are about the human soul in crisis and in conflict with itself. The Germans have always shown a very unique and rare grace about that war and how they portrays it. It is always raw, honest and thought provoking to watch their war movies. Also their post war movies. Eastern Europeans also have a very raw and honest take on the war as its biggest victims. Theirs is a story of immense pain and the destruction of innocence. How it makes you a monster in the end if you don't find the strength to withstand it. Come and See is a great example of that.
But yeah, when it comes to the Germans they have taken responsibility in way no other nation has and they are not fucking around with that shit. There is also the fact that they managed to rebuild their nation from rubble both figuratively and literally and become the strongest economy in Europe. That is impressive. They have been humble and held on to the concept of responsibility with an iron grip for all the years I have been alive and they have suffered in their own right for what they did to Europe. In 8th grade my class read a novel about German refugees post ww2 and how they were treated in Denmark. The author was invited to my school to have a q and a with my class which was very eye opening for 14 year old me. Movies have been made in more recent decades about the suffering of the German refugees. There is a part of the cemetery in my town that is a dedicated memorial to German refugees who died here.
The tone towards the Germans has been a gradual, earned shift from hatred and hurt to acceptance and friendship because we were all willing to look at the full picture of that war and acknowledge the humanity in everybody regardless of nationality and ethnicity. I have walked the ruins of Auschwitz and Birkenau and visited Schindlers' factory as part of my education. I have read books, seen movies, documentaries and listened to witness testimonies. My dad remembers the day we were freed from the German occupation. People running the streets with our flag and yelling we are free we are free.
In Denmark we have acknowledged our own resistance against the Germans and our cooperation or even collaborations with the Germans during the occupation and the terribly fine line we had to balance too keep them happy while still holding on to our values as a nation. We helped many many jews escape to Sweden. Some delivered them to the Germans. Some died for our freedom, others gave it away willingly for profit or safety. It is never simple. My Mother in law's grandfather was a policeman. He and his colleagues were captured by the Germans and sent to concentration camps where they were forced to burn dead jews in ovens. Those who survived were returned to Denmark after the war and they were never the same.
Germany today is not Germany in the 40s. Most of us in Europe experienced a complex trauma where we both did good and bad things during and after the war. Every nation's experience was similar but different in small or big ways. It was the willingness to forgive and build bridges between us that changed things for the better and laid the groundwork for a Dane like me being able to defend my German neighbors today.
I genuinely hold no grudges against Germany. I see nazi Germany and Germany-Germany as two differnet things. They are not perfect. No nation is, but their willingness to do better and take responsibility and change is something they don't get enough credit for. To come out on top like they have, a much more principled and reflected nation that has been a net positive for Europe the past many decades is absolutely awe inspiring.
And while America did their part in the war and definitely deserve their praise for that, they have not reflected at all on anything in the decades since, but gassed themselves up to believe they are the greatest nation on earth, often neglecting to remember that overcoming the nazi regime was a united effort from multiple nations and not just one.
You're absolutely right about American arrogance. It's always been a thing with us, thinking we're the greatest country in the world, and predictably, it's led us right where every other empire that thought they were invincible ended up, into suffering and ruin. I'm not sorry to see the American empire fall, but I am sorry that so many will have to suffer because of it.
For what it is worth, I do believe the American people will be okay in the end. Europe, I'm also pretty confident will be okay. In fact, if we look past all the scary and infuriating shit, I'm friggin hyped about us finally starting to build a stronger and more independent Europe even though it's like rebuilding a house on fire, lol. We have overcome worse shit and I am generally very optimistic about the future. Even if it's gonna suck for awhile.
All these changes are also gonna take longer than you and I are alive so the shift from the old world order to the newest world constellation, is gonna be slow as a glacier and very boring and frustratingly unremarkable in our lifetime.
It's easy to fall into doomsday thinking so I choose to be optimistic whenever I'm not triggered into a turbo rage at the newest retarded statement that monkey man spews from the oval office. Lol.
But yeah, I have hope for Americans still. It's going to suck for awhile, but this bs won't last forever and there will be better days to come for the American people too.
Thank you for your optimism, friend. I worry about the far-right groups that are gaining power all throughout Europe, as well. I hope you guys do a better job keeping them out of power than we have!
Yeah, it's not the coolest trend to see rise in Europe, but it is always easier for extremists to be taken seriously during times where people are struggling so I see it as an expression of that.
I of course can't say how this trend develops in Europe, but I don't believe it is going to be a new normal for us longterm.
There's still a strong sense of unity in Europe even if Russia and America are doing their damnedest to destabilize us. I choose to hold on to optimism because fuck Putin and fuck Trump. They don't get to dictate whether or not I get to have hope and compassion for my fellow man.
It's really hard sometimes to not let hate and anger take over, but it's so important to reject that shit. I have to remind myself of that everytime I get angry with the trump administration and whatever demonic shit putin is doing on his end.
Anyway, sorry for babbling. I hope you have a great weekend, my friend. Peace and love!
don't come here with your reason and compassion, it'll fall for deaf ears and you'll lose your hope in humanity.
I am starting to realize that, lol.
I think the funniest part is that I was being down voted for calling out an obvious anti-Denmark propaganda troll in a thread full of people talking about how America is a nazi nation. And yet so many people completely fall for an obvious MAGA troll who is spreading the exact same disinformation and slander about my country that trump and his minions were spreading last year in and attempt to make Americans supportive of an invasion of Greenland.
That is endlessly amusing to me. Really shows you that none of the people here are serious nor have any worthwhile opinions about the world they live in. Horseshoe theory is alive and well.
Okay troll.
No one said it was easy.
No, but it is very easy to be a keyboard warrior and call regular people nazis because they don’t leave their jobs.
22 years of “doing my job” btw:
Yeah because the only job available in America is being an ICE agent. You got me. Damn.
Which job ends US imperialism?
The US system is very very big and very very complex and it is run by many many MANY people in vastly different jobs. People are speaking on broad terms and essentially leveling completely normal Americans who works office jobs for the government with ICE agents. You're being very bad faith as well. You know I'm not talking about ICE agents. I'm talking about the American system as a whole and how people can't just leave their jobs to protest the regime that benefits from their work. Neither you nor I can fully appreciate how complex and scary it is for many American workers right now.
But sure, ICE can go fuck itself and I have little to no sympathy for the ICE agents who are essentially doing domestic terrorism right now. But again, they do not represent the entirety of the American workforce.
I’ll read that as “there’s is no job in America that ends the US killings domestically and abroad.”
ACAB?
I asked you what history has called them. I get that you don't like the answer, but it doesn't change the truth.
I did give you an answer but you don't like the answer and want to hold on to your måde up version of reality. I don't expect someone like you to have any remotely nuanced understanding of how Europe understands its own history nor how its relationship with Germans has mended the past 80 years to the point that no one calls regular Germans who worked regular jobs during nazi Germany for nazis. That is such a childish and simplistic understanding of our history. But I get it, you don't want to be nuanced. You want to live in your black and white world view. Enjoy that. You fit right in with MAGA.
Lmao, you had to get into the personal attacks.
Just because you forgave the Nazis doesn't mean that everyone else needs to.
It is personal. And it is clear you are not a serious individual
It is clear that you don't believe in personal responsibility.