Nina spitting truths as always. She's on fire recently, so follow her if you're not doing so already.
To be clear; everyone working in my government, particularly after today, is a Nazi, or someone who works for Nazis. Do you know what we call people who worked for the Nazis, in the Nazi government? Yes, that is correct, Nazis.
So Machado is certainly not gonna feel lonely on the list of people on my TV who are definitely Nazis.
Oh, was that too harsh? Are you feeling bad for the good career civil servants, working for the literal fucking Nazis, who I have just impuned? Cool, let's refer back to that part where I said I was surrounded by people who openly recognize that this is fascism, and ABSO-FUCKING-LUTELY refuse to accept what that actually means.
We call people, who worked for the Nazi Party, in the Nazi government, Nazis. Nobody says "the Nazi government and the career civil servants who hated them but stayed."
"They'll just find someone else."
Then let them. "I took the job at the concentration camp because I was sure Hitler would find someone else" was not a good defense in court last time, and it won't be this time either.
My philosophy allows for distinction between death squads and meter maids.
The guy who scrubbed Hitler's toilet was not culpable in the same manner as the asshole who sat on it.
If your livelihood depends on Hitler being in power, you're going to keep him in power. In a very real sense, the toilet guy is more culpable than the asshole who sat on it.
"You know who I blame for the holocaust? The janitor!"
Fuck off.
Hitler had no power whatsoever without the will of the German populace.
It was the sum total of all the trivial efforts - like those of that janitor - that gave us the Holocaust.
Dictators have immense power despite what the populace wants. That's... what makes them dictators. Even when everyone opposes the military, their opposition is the military, so the people tend to lose horribly.
Are you more responsible for capitalism than Elon Musk?
The consumer class is responsible not just for making Musk a billionaire, but also Bezos, Zuckerberg, Brin, Arnault, Ballmer, all of the Waltons... The most accurate answer to your question is "Yes", I am indeed more responsible for capitalism than Elon Musk.
So the guillotines go where, first?
In 1930s Germany? Here's a shortlist of candidates.
Are you on that list, what with being more responsible?
Now you're just being intellectually dishonest.
No, I'm not on the list. Hitler's janitor wasn't on the list. Guillotining Hitler's janitor wouldn't have stopped the Holocaust. Hitler's janitors refusing to go to work would have. Hitler's janitors guillotining Hitler would have. Guillotining me and the rest of the consumer class won't solve the problems we created.
Take some personal responsibility.
So you're more responsible?
So you were lying.
So you were lying badly.
So words don't mean things.
Yep! "I" being the entire consumer class that created all of the billionaires. I feel I was pretty clear about that. You were well aware of that when you suggested that "I" should face the guillotine. That was your dishonesty.
Hitler had no power without the support of the German people. "But he was a dictator!" Dictators have no power without the support of the people. When the people laugh at him and call him an idiot, he's not a dictator. He's just some random dickhead yelling at the clouds. He was only a dictator because people followed his dictates.
Your argument was that Hitler's janitor wasn't responsible for the holocaust; that his Nazi role was trivial. The sum totality of all those "trivial" Nazi roles is what gave us the holocaust.
It's still you saying consumers should face the guillotine, ahead of billionaires and dictators.
Quite frankly what the fuck.
You brought the guillotine into it, not I. I said nothing of the sort. You conflated "responsibility" with "deserving of the guillotine". I did not. I did not speak of punishment at all.
My point was and is that Hitler and Trump can't do a thing without the support of the populace. Hitler didn't build an oven. He never stacked a brick. He never set a rivet in a V2 missile. He never scrubbed a toilet for anyone who did. Each of these individual tasks was trivial; the sum total of all those trivialities was the Holocaust.
Do not let yourself believe that your own trivial contribution to fascism is meaningless. Take personal responsibility for your actions. "I was just trying to get by" is condemnation, not absolution.
The guy who scrubbed Hitler's toilets isn't remembered at all, except by the collective noun "Nazi".
They weren't "The Nazis and the guy who scrubbed Hitler's toilets", just "Nazis". You're philosophy may allow for any distinction it likes, the lessons of history: just "Nazi". For reference I linked the Wikipedia page to the Nazi party please observe the title isn't "The Nazi Party and Hitler's toilet guy" just "The nazi Party"
And that doesn't invite any reconsideration on your part. Eighty million of the most evil motherfuckers imaginable, even if all they did is scrub toilets. Zero distinction.
That's not how I understand language to work Worked for/with Nazis, adjective: Nazi. What reconsideration would you like me to make? They worked for/with "the most evil motherfuckers imaginable", messy work that, makes sense you get some stink on you.
The post is about historic legacy. Learning the lessons of history. The historic legacy of those that worked for/with Nazis is "Nazi".
Imagine what fate you'd assign to Adolf literally Hitler if he hadn't done the last decent thing in his life as the Soviets knocked on his door.
Would you give nearly the entire population of mid-century Germany the same treatment?
How are you not understanding this? The post has explained it. I have explained it. History remembers the guy that cleaned Hitler's toilets under the collective noun "Nazi".
History remembers Hitler specifically. In the wiki article I provided, and you haven't read, Adolf Hitler has his own link his toilet cleaner does not. That is what you call a false equivelincy, please apologise. Please try again with a good faith argument.
Please respond.
While you you continue to act in bad faith I will talk past you for a minute. This person will "nuance" themselves all the way to a camp, or they'll nuance you all the way to a camp. Nazis are Nazis, don't let them convince you otherwise.
You don't know what bad faith means, beyond people disagreeing with you.
Staying within the US, there's a lot of Confederates who should have been hanged, but if you applied that to everyone who could be called a Confederate, you'd be describing a genocide. You can condemn people for not resisting their intolerable circumstances - but it's not the same manner of moral failing as deliberately creating those circumstances.
Otherwise, how much of an asshole are you for participating in capitalism?
I won't answer your questions until you answer mine. More bad faith.
I notice you just learned that Hitler and his toilet cleaner are remembered differently and have dropped the point. This a common tactic among bad actors
Talking past you again until how you learn to have a discussion We remember the people that worked with/for the Confederates as: Confederates. The post is about how history remembers people that work for/with evil. We remember them as evil. Don't want to be remembered as evil? Don't work for/with evil.
How many times has this person heard this? Here they try to reframe it as Confederates but it's still true that history remembers them as Confederates.
Will you try again?
Word salad.
Good day.
This is also bad faith. They can't handle the points so they just insult and leave pretending they achieved anything at all.
We remember the people that worked with/for Nazis as Nazis. They haven't and can't demonstrate differently.
We remember the people the people that worked with/for the Confederates (their chosen comparison) as Confederates. They haven't and can't demonstrate differently.
Twice history has tried to teach them this lesson. Twice they ignored it. Don't wan't to be lumped in with the MAGA shit, don't work with/for MAGA.
This person may march you to a camp because their personal philosophy says they aren't as bad as the person shoving you in the oven.
Okay, capitalist. Perpetuating the system of wage labor you exist within.
Apparently there's no distinction between you and Elon Musk.
They can't even be trusted to leave when they said they would. Good day?
Does Elon musk have a wiki? Do I?
They can't be trusted to learn lessons taught to them mere hours ago.
Here they are trying to engage in a slap fight. All premise of discussion abandoned. The post abandoned. History still remembers the people that worked for/with Nazis as Nazis. They still haven't demonstrated anything to the contrary
You're right, I should have just blocked you when it was clear you embody the bad faith you keep projecting. If continuing the conversation on your own terms is inherently a failure then nobody should bother speaking to you.
Notice still nothing here.
People that worked for/with Nazis still remembered as Nazis.
People that worked for/with Confederates still Confederates.
My own terms was the premise of the post. People working for/with Nazis are remembered as nazis. As evidence I provided a wiki. They never once engaged with that. Never once engaged "on my terms". Which is why they struggled so much, every distraction they attempted including an attempt at a slap fight, I just redirected them to the premise they ignored.
They said good day several comments ago. Why are they still here.
Talking to you now. You can state I argue in bad faith all you want, I demonstrated that you do. Please have a think about what happened here, later, I know you won't admit anything to me. You tried to nuance the Nazis, who does that? I didn't let you distract me, and that sucked for you. Every time I kept repeating the core point you ignored: people that worked for/with Nazis are just remembered as Nazis, please learn the lesson history is teaching you. Then you brought up the confederates, only to find out we remember the people that work for/with the confederates as confederates, please learn the lesson history is teaching you. Please, for the love of anything your personal philosophy will allow you to believe in, learn the lesson history is teaching you.
Here's what I think I should have done differently: explicitly stated that not only does history remember Hitler and his toilet cleaner differently, but I do too. I thought I made that clear with
but I could have been more explicit. I addressed or thought I addressed the core of your argument. But you proceeded as if I hadn't, I should have reacted to that. Hitler and his toilet cleaner are not morally the same. Still a nazi though