Remove if against rules but need to be brought up. Admin of db0 seems to think everyone to the left of the db0 instance is out to kill/murder them. Then for some reason does more massive rants against cowbee.

Idk if should be in different comm but with this and their support of angry quoka user getting worrying

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[–] ReadFanon@hexbear.net 30 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (3 children)

It was really brain-melting seeing anarchist comrades I knew well, who had denounced the Cheka and the Stasi and so on, take one of two routes when I raised the Makhnovist military secret police - either they'd deny it and claim it was merely Bolshevik propaganda (lol) or they would immediately switch to defending it and providing justifications despite not being aware of it up until that point. I was already deeply questioning my anarchist politics at this point but to see anarchists, some of whom I sincerely respected, start doing the same thing that they'd lambaste "tankies" over really shook me and it led me to question the dogmatism that I became aware of, which eventually led me to get serious about materialism. Ultimately, it speaks volumes that an anarchist movement irl required the establishment of a secret police force during a period of civil war to defend the revolution. I'm not going to say that their every action was justified but if you lean into it, it says something about the nature of and the necessity for concentration of authority and of state apparatuses. I guess I wasn't quite hardheaded enough that I could ignore this for long, although only by a narrow margin.

So, as is customary, you've replied to me and so it's only right that I provide you with yet another item to add to your reading list [PDF Warning]. Fortunately Kontrrazvedka: The Story of the Makhnovist Intelligence Service is short, but it's quite comprehensive for the topic of the Makhnovist military secret police (Kontrrazvedka being the Ukrainian term for them.) There are other mentions of them in other historical sources but they are often small and fragmentory.

Azarov is a contemporary Ukrainian anarchist so it's really hard for his work to be reflexively dismissed as a source too, which is nice. I still think he handles the subject with kid's gloves, honestly, but at least he stuck his neck out to write this work and he did criticize the Kontrrazvedka, which is more than I can say for some anarchists. (It's a bad period of history to be a prominent anarchist living in Ukraine though and I wonder how he's doing.)

Congrats on being promoted to boogeyman status. That's something we could all aspire to be lol

[–] Cowbee@hexbear.net 31 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Yep, what you describe is a similar path I took from anarchism to Marxism. Seeing anarchist movements forced through necessity into making concessions and adapting structures that normally go against horizontalism was one of the bits that propelled me towards Socialism: Utopian and Scientific, and then the rest of the Marxist canon. And thanks for the book! There's no chance I can get to it anytime soon, but it's absolutely getting added to the list of books I intend to read.

Hope Azarov is doing well too, that's terrifying.

And yep, I've basically been a boogeyman for quite a few people for quite a while now. I don't really get it though, I'm one of the least confrontational and least aggressive people that talk about Marxism here on Lemmy.

[–] Are_Euclidding_Me@hexbear.net 28 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I'm one of the least confrontational and least aggressive people that talk about Marxism here on Lemmy.

I legit think it's this! You're always so calm and composed and you treat the comments you're arguing against with such respect, more than they often deserve. I think it makes it really hard for people to argue against you in a compelling way, and it pisses people off that their arguments look so bad in comparison to yours

[–] Cowbee@hexbear.net 25 points 2 weeks ago

I've had similar thoughts, and I find it really funny that it provokes such hatred. The reason I do it is so that none of my points can be dismissed due to their delivery, that's also why I give a lot of leeway for what others say and focus on the points at hand no matter how rudely they're given. Nia Frome's On Dialectics, or How to Defeat Enemies is a great essay on why that works well.

[–] ReadFanon@hexbear.net 24 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

You don't need to be threatening to be perceived as a threat, I suppose.

[–] Cowbee@hexbear.net 24 points 2 weeks ago

I think that's what's more threatening, as comrade Are_Euclidding_Me pointed out. It's easier to dismiss rude or confrontational people, no matter how justified they are, than someone that avoids slapfighting.

[–] Collatz_problem@hexbear.net 19 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Kontrrazvedka being the Ukrainian term for them

It's actually Russian (контрразведка), Ukrainian would be Kontrrozvidka (контррозвiдка), which is almost the same anyway.

[–] ReadFanon@hexbear.net 15 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Oh that's interesting to know, thanks for the correction!

[–] Collatz_problem@hexbear.net 18 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Makhno used Russian and Ukrainian words pretty much interchangeably (which is typical of Southern and Eastern Ukraine), and most information got through Russian-language sources anyway.

[–] ReadFanon@hexbear.net 9 points 2 weeks ago

I always appreciate learning and people who have a commitment to accuracy, so these corrections might not seem like much but it matters to me a lot.

[–] Edie@hexbear.net 16 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Books! yummy (not that I'm gonna read anytime soon)

ⓘ This user is suspected of being a cat. Please report any suspicious behavior.

[–] ReadFanon@hexbear.net 15 points 2 weeks ago

"You act like mortals in all that you fear, and like immortals in all that you add to your to-read pile"

— Seneca, probably