this post was submitted on 05 Dec 2025
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electoralism
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Reform winning obviously bad, labour still awful and incompetent.
It is fascinating from an armchair politics point of view that we might be seeing the end of the torys and labour. These are old parties.
I mean they might certainly bounce back, but given reform and the greens/SNP/Lib Dems will swoop in on their territory maybe not.
I mean having two entrenched parties with that have been around for a century is really an Anglo thing. Like most other countries have parties have parties that rise and fall dramatically.
Labour can bounce back, a leader change and serious shift leftwards can revive them. Tories can not bounce back unless Reform shits the bed, they have exhausted their ability to just change the leader and have people give them a new chance. It's not a leader of the tories that people hate, it's the tories, the party has taken on all the hate now, it can't be scrubbed off.
For all Labour's ills it is ultimately just Starmer and the neoliberals that are hated, not the party itself.
I agree definitely. I think there's a moment/opportunity under Zach Polanski for the greens to take their spot. But it's not settled in the way Reform has steamrolled the tories.
I don't see how any party is going to bounce back in the short term unless they just copy Farage on immigration, which would be horrendous. There's just no going back now in the short term. 80% of the UK thinks there's too much illegal immigration, and even a slim majority of around 45-50% (vs slightly less for opposing views, and then undecided) think there's too much legal immigration. Those numbers would take years to change.
Labour can bounce back if they put the correct person in and start saying left wing things. Andy Burnham is that man.
The problem is that the Starmerite faction has to choose that outcome themselves. Andy can't get an MP seat before the next election unless the NEC (national executive committee) selects him for a seat before then, as he doesn't have an MP seat currently and he can't be leader of the party without one.
Someone like this would pull back the Green, Lib Dems and split Your Party (the trots would go back to do more labour entryism).
I don't think the Starmerite faction will allow it to happen. But it can happen, it's right there and not that hard, it just requires those fools to swallow some pride, a thing I do not believe they will ever do.
Don't get me wrong here, I don't know whether he would actually win vs Reform, all I'm saying is that it would save the party itself by rebounding it to the 30-40% vote numbers again.
Nobody else can do it though. It's Andy or nobody.