They literally are, and plenty of studies have been done on the subject. Everybody with even a shred of intellectual honesty knows that sanctions are a modern form of siege warfare designed to starve the population.

Sanctions reduce external trade, but when a regime prioritizes the military over its citizens and uses an ideologically rigid farming system (Juche) that fails regardless of external trade, that is mismanagement.

Simply repeating nonsense over and over won't make it true baby Goebbels.

The leadership decided to let millions starve rather than reform or appeal for help until it was too late.

Ah yes, the leadership was supposed to wave a magic wand around and replace all the food and fertilizer by wishing it into existence. The utter lack of capacity for critical thought on display here is truly stunning.

Sure, here’s the citation

Ah yes, defectors are obviously a reliable source of information who have no ulterior motives. Your intelligence continues to shine bright.

You’re swinging hard against standard economics here.

Buddy, any economist will tell you that GDP is not a measure of standard of living. The only one swinging hard here is you because you're too ignorant to discuss the subject. Here, go educate yourself instead of continuing to make a clown of yourself in public https://hbr.org/2019/10/gdp-is-not-a-measure-of-human-well-being

This is the central ideological fantasy: A guarantee of low-quality, insufficient welfare is better than the risk of high-quality capitalism.

An amazing straw man you cobbled together there. The fantasy version if DPRK you're describing sounds fascinating.

I’ll keep believing in the hard facts provided by the UN, the Bank of Korea, and 34,000 eyewitnesses who risked their lives to escape. You stick to the fantasy.

That's adorable.

[–] sephallen@lemmy.ml -3 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

"They literally are, and plenty of studies have been done on the subject. Everybody with even a shred of intellectual honesty knows that sanctions are a modern form of siege warfare designed to starve the population."

Sanctions are not a siege: They target trade and finance. While they hurt the general population (that’s often the point), they are not the primary cause of famine when food distribution and production are controlled by the government.

The Primary Cause: The DPRK famine was caused by the failure of centralized agricultural planning (Juche), the loss of Soviet aid (fuel/fertilizer), and the leadership's choice to prioritize the military (Songun) over feeding its citizens. This is the consensus among virtually all UN, NGO, and academic reports. It's a failure of distribution and system design, not just external pressure.

"Wave a magic wand": No, the leadership could have chosen to reform the collectivized farm system or redirect military resources (food, fuel, transport) to the starving regions. They did not. That is the definition of a deadly political choice, not a lack of magic wands.

"Buddy, any economist will tell you that GDP is not a measure of standard of living... Here, go educate yourself... https://hbr.org/2019/10/gdp-is-not-a-measure-of-human-well-being"

Yes, we agree that GDP is an incomplete measure of well-being (happiness, environment, etc.). But GDP is the most basic measure of a nation's capacity to produce wealth.

Your argument requires us to believe that a country that produces 60 times less wealth than its neighbor (ROK vs. DPRK GDP) somehow provides a higher standard of living because of "guarantees."

This is why we use Human Development Index (HDI), which you chose to ignore after raising the issue yourself. The HDI factors in life expectancy and education—and South Korea is top-tier, while North Korea is comparable to the poorest nations. A guarantee of poverty is still poverty.

"Ah yes, defectors are obviously a reliable source of information who have no ulterior motives. Your intelligence continues to shine bright."

You're rejecting:

34,000+ Defectors (the only non-state witnesses).

UN/WFP Reports (non-partisan global bodies).

Bank of Korea Estimates (standard economic methodology).

Meanwhile, your evidence for the DPRK's supposed economic success is an article about South Korean food insecurity and unsubstantiated claims about guaranteed, high-quality welfare.

When you dismiss every source of information that contradicts the premise of a socialist utopia, you are not engaging in an honest debate; you are simply asserting an ideological fantasy. The evidence of systemic failure is overwhelming. Take care.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

Sanctions are not a siege: They target trade and finance. While they hurt the general population (that’s often the point), they are not the primary cause of famine when food distribution and production are controlled by the government.

If that was the case then DPRK would've had a famine already before sanctions. Yet, the famine directly coincides with the fall of USSR and the start of sanctions. Clearly the concept of cause and effect is just too complex for you to grasp.

Literally the first sentence from Harvard economists:

GDP was not designed to assess welfare or the well being of citizens. It was designed to measure production capacity and economic growth.

Keep on ignoring facts though as is your custom.

But GDP is the most basic measure of a nation’s capacity to produce wealth.

That's a meaningless metric without the context of how the wealth is distributed. The whole reason occupied Korea is now in a social crisis is due to the fact that majority of the working population is unable to make ends meet. We don't even have to make up defectors to find out how bad things are: 75% of young want to escape South Korean ‘Hell’

You’re rejecting

I'm rejecting the imbecilic narrative you're trying to paint. I guess these types of arguments worked well for you when you were engaging with other fascists on reddit.

When you dismiss every source of information that contradicts the premise of a socialist utopia, you are not engaging in an honest debate; you are simply asserting an ideological fantasy. The evidence of systemic failure is overwhelming. Take care.

LMFAO literally what you've been doing throughout this whole discussion. The evidence of you being unable to engage with reality is overwhelming. Take care.