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You're absolutely right.
Treat them differently? No. But I'll call them out for sure. I'll tell them they're wrong or even a moron. But I won't treat them differently.
Brother in Christ, calling them out, telling them they're wrong or even a moron is treating them differently.
And if someone you know says racist shit, and you don't treat them differently, you're racist too. You don't get to share drinks with a Nazi without becoming a Nazi.
Treating people differently because of their beliefs is entirely valid depending on their beliefs. If you think pancakes are better than waffles, that's one thing, if you think transgender people are mentally sick and don't deserve rights (or any LGBTQIA+, any race, any nationality) then that's an entirely different thing.
True unbiased neutrality only benefits the worst side of humanity.
I don't consider calling someone out "treating them differently", because I would do the same to anyone who says anything stupid. If you don't say stupid things, then I don't need to call you out. That's not the same as treating them differently.
I'll call them racist, tell them they're horrible, and not hang out with them.
I think we're agreeing on the fundamentals, but disagreeing on terminology.
You're holding everyone to the same standard: Don't be a racist asshole, but you're treating people differently depending on how they meet that standard.
That's a good way of phrasing it. Thanks.
That being said, no matter who I'm dealing with I always try to be respectful. So when I say I call someone out for being racist I don't mean I call them a POS, I mean I outright tell them it's disgusting and not ok, all the while being a respectable person.
Except Gina Carano, you havent called her out yet and are actively defending her. So you are either lying or full of shit.
I said in my original comment that I disagree with what she said. And in other comments I have outright said that Gina said really stupid things. That's a nice way of saying it.
You need glasses or reading lessons, because I haven't defended her once.
And this just about sums up the attitudes here. Quite literally a mob saying "if you're not with us and denouncing the person we're after, then you're against us too".
No, we're not agreeing on the fundamentals.
I don't break bread with Nazi's, I don't respect racists, and I don't make friends with homophobic people.
If anyone came out in support of fundamentally evil concepts and I had the power to fire them, ostracize them, or make them feel unwelcome I would. You fundamentally disagree with that because you believe in true neutral freedom of speech, seemingly void of any meaningful consequence.
I think there's something to say about giving people space to have bad ideas and to try and heal them through their evil perspective, but I think if someone is a full blown racist they should be treated like full blown racists. You old a bad opinion, but I'm trying to explain why it's bad so that you can improve your perspective and do more good for the world.
So I'm trying to be clear, we do not agree. If someone is racist, you shouldn't defend their beliefs and give them space to espouse them. If you do that, you allow those beliefs to grow. This is freedom of speech with consequences for your beliefs and actions. This is an ultimate good for society. Some idea and actions are toxic to society but play on base human instincts - like the "other" as an escape goat. Those ideas need to be socially and financially punished as much as possible because they're an easy disease to spread that hurts everyone. Racism and anti-Semitism and anti-lgtbqia are these concepts that allow evil people to falsely attribute the cause of societal problems to marginalized and less powerful groups. And the problem is it works, it plays on base instincts, and thus the best vaccine against them is education, experience, and harsh punishment for holding those beliefs.
You have to start believing in protecting your community by abandoning the belief that anyone should be allowed to say and believe anything without suffering any consequences.
Ok, but neither do I.
I don't exactly go out of my way to make those kinds of friends, but it's not exactly on my questionnaire when making new friends. However, I happen to know quite a few people that could be called homophobic.
But instead of writing them off, I try to be patient with them. If the topic comes up then I discuss it calmly, point out flaws in their thinking, and share my point of view.
Then you are part of the problem. When people's beliefs are so starkly attacked, they will get their backs up. That's basic human psychology. Every person has a desire to feel belonging. So when they are attacked like that they will seek out validation with like minded groups. And that will only serve to reinforce their thinking and create echo chambers.
I think you really don't understand my perspective.
I absolutely do not, and at no point here on Lemmy (or ever in life) have implied that I defend someone who is racist. Where are you even getting that from?
Not in the way that you hope. All that will happen is those people will learn to hide their beliefs and will share them with like-minded people. And over time those ideas will spread.
Being patient with those kinds of people allows them to empathize with your viewpoint and associate the mindset with you yourself. But if you are aggressive and punitive towards them, then they'll feel justified in their position and solidify it when they talk about it with their friends.
See, I never said no one should have consequences. So I have no idea why you took what I said to that extreme.
This is you defending someone who was anti-vax, politically conspiratorial (general Fox flavor, vote was rigged), and mocked people specifing their pronouns against consequences for sharing those opinions.
Beliefs that hurt her community, that hurt the marginalized, and that she was happy to continue expousing and expanding upon on conservative podcasts and channels after being let go.
Idk why you're acting like you're not defending her or saying she shouldn't suffer consequences - this is literally the basis for this thread. Your bad take about this situation.
Nazi's should feel threatened for holding their beliefs. If that person were my dad or my friend, I'd offer understanding while trying to work them out of their horrible beliefs - but boy would that be a short rope. Even now, I'm trying my best to talk to you about this topic with kindness. Despite none of my comments or any other in this thread seemingly penetrating.
You are defending this actress against suffering consequences for her beliefs, including dangerous anti-vax beliefs and borderline anti-lgtbqia beliefs. Are you now denying what you wrote? Or have you changed your mind? Or where is the misunderstanding here?
Maybe the issue here is that I'm not aware of all the things she's said. Because all of that is news to me.
That's fair. Some people have more patience than others.
Again, you're acting like I'm defending what Gina said, when I'm absolutely not. You're acting like I'm saying she should be free of consequences, when I'm not. All I said was that I think Disney firing her (for what I thought was a single "edgy" tweet) was too harsh.